camflan
Active member
Second worst thing on the fantastic EM ESL are the spikes, first being the binding "posts". Anyone upgraded these with some proper, adjustable spikes? These speakers are too good to have these cheap posts and spikes.
Upgrade spikes on ElectroMotion ESL?
- Thread starter camflan
- Start date
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Gordon Gray
Well-known member
Hi Cam,
Definitely upgrade the spikes. Anything you can do to reduce floor induced vibrations and increase panel stability is a wise expenditure of funds.
Based on my experience, it's quite amazing how much damage (read loss of performance) vibrations will do to the final sound. That goes for all components.
GG
Definitely upgrade the spikes. Anything you can do to reduce floor induced vibrations and increase panel stability is a wise expenditure of funds.
Based on my experience, it's quite amazing how much damage (read loss of performance) vibrations will do to the final sound. That goes for all components.
GG
invenio
Well-known member
These are what I use on my Vantages:
http://shop.mapleshadestore.com/Threaded-Heavyfoot-v3-individual/productinfo/HF-THR/
http://shop.mapleshadestore.com/Threaded-Heavyfoot-v3-individual/productinfo/HF-THR/
camflan
Active member
Good to hear I'm not crazy for wanting to get these spikes upgraded 
- Camron
- Camron
Gordon Gray
Well-known member
Camron,
As you will soon realize, if you don't know already, is that everything matters in audio.
Having a secure, non-vibratory floor / speaker interface is certainly a high priority. There's a small mom / pop company in Oregon that makes some good products.
Then you can start playing with the vertical panel rake angle. Make sure your new spike / cones allow for this adjustment without compromising rigidity.
GG
PS: Google "oregondv" for product lines
As you will soon realize, if you don't know already, is that everything matters in audio.
Having a secure, non-vibratory floor / speaker interface is certainly a high priority. There's a small mom / pop company in Oregon that makes some good products.
Then you can start playing with the vertical panel rake angle. Make sure your new spike / cones allow for this adjustment without compromising rigidity.
GG
PS: Google "oregondv" for product lines
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jmschnur
Well-known member
Gordon ,
What are you using?
Joel
What are you using?
Joel
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camflan
Active member
I like the look of those spike outriggers. Anyone used these?
- Camron
- Camron
You might want to read this.
http://www.audioholics.com/educatio...ker-spikes-and-cones-2013-what2019s-the-point
Basically spikes just keep the speaker from moving around on carpet or whatever. (EDITED, I should've added more to this but I was on a tablet and it's not the best thing to type on.) For our ESL's it can help adjust the rake too. I doubt upgrading the spikes will change the sound unless the current spikes can't penetrate your carpet effectively. Room treatments such as absorption or diffusion would be more worthy of investing IMO.
BTW Maple Shade are just a bunch of snake oil salesmen.
http://www.audioholics.com/educatio...ker-spikes-and-cones-2013-what2019s-the-point
Basically spikes just keep the speaker from moving around on carpet or whatever. (EDITED, I should've added more to this but I was on a tablet and it's not the best thing to type on.) For our ESL's it can help adjust the rake too. I doubt upgrading the spikes will change the sound unless the current spikes can't penetrate your carpet effectively. Room treatments such as absorption or diffusion would be more worthy of investing IMO.
BTW Maple Shade are just a bunch of snake oil salesmen.
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Gordon Gray
Well-known member
Hi Tch,
I take great offense regarding your Mapleshade comments. And your apparent ignorance regarding spikes and cones.
I have, and still continue to use their products in my system.
How many of their products have you personally auditioned in your system?
What is the basis of your claim that Pierre and company are snake oil salesman?
Have you ever listened to any of Pierre's recordings? If so, which ones?
Do you know that his recordings have consistently received rave reviews from any credible source that has taken the time to listen to them?
From my experience, your comments are baseless except for the impact room treatments may make on a system's sound.
If you want to spout off, you better back it up with some concrete facts. Otherwise, STFU.
GG
I take great offense regarding your Mapleshade comments. And your apparent ignorance regarding spikes and cones.
I have, and still continue to use their products in my system.
How many of their products have you personally auditioned in your system?
What is the basis of your claim that Pierre and company are snake oil salesman?
Have you ever listened to any of Pierre's recordings? If so, which ones?
Do you know that his recordings have consistently received rave reviews from any credible source that has taken the time to listen to them?
From my experience, your comments are baseless except for the impact room treatments may make on a system's sound.
If you want to spout off, you better back it up with some concrete facts. Otherwise, STFU.
GG
Did you even read the link? Clearly you didn't.
You get offended that I think Maple Shade are snake oil salesmen? You might want to watch this...
I do not know of their records, which may be great however most of their catalog is high priced accessories that probably cost next to nothing to produce (compared to what they sell it for) and have no scientific backing to any increase or even effect on sound. Hell if you look at some of the advice on "free" upgrades (especially regarding computer audio) it's bullshit. For example they state Internet Explorer has better SQ than Firefox. Give me a break. They also recommend using the thin wires, that's bullshit and anyone who knows even the basics about electricity knows that's wrong.
http://mapleshadestore.com/upgrades.php
You get offended that I think Maple Shade are snake oil salesmen? You might want to watch this...
I do not know of their records, which may be great however most of their catalog is high priced accessories that probably cost next to nothing to produce (compared to what they sell it for) and have no scientific backing to any increase or even effect on sound. Hell if you look at some of the advice on "free" upgrades (especially regarding computer audio) it's bullshit. For example they state Internet Explorer has better SQ than Firefox. Give me a break. They also recommend using the thin wires, that's bullshit and anyone who knows even the basics about electricity knows that's wrong.
http://mapleshadestore.com/upgrades.php
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camflan
Active member
I have tall pile carpet and the EM ESL spikes don't allow rake and level adjustment.
The point of spikes isn't to decouple a speaker from the floor or to isolate it - the point is to couple it to a solid base to prevent the speaker from moving around while playing. And if you can couple it to a solid and rigid enough base, you increase mass which will dampen vibrations.
If you couple it to a flexible base such as a thin wood over joist floor, you'll effectively add another radiating surface and find that bass frequencies are now heard and felt in the floor as it vibrates with the speaker.
- Camron
The point of spikes isn't to decouple a speaker from the floor or to isolate it - the point is to couple it to a solid base to prevent the speaker from moving around while playing. And if you can couple it to a solid and rigid enough base, you increase mass which will dampen vibrations.
If you couple it to a flexible base such as a thin wood over joist floor, you'll effectively add another radiating surface and find that bass frequencies are now heard and felt in the floor as it vibrates with the speaker.
- Camron
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robertawillisjr
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Tch,
This is in reponse to both this and your later post. Spikes and other footer devices(depending on the floor) do more than "keep the speaker from moving around". They have been proven to be beneficial to the sound. Pierre at Mapleshade has some very different ideas about speaker coupling/decoupling but they seem to be valid for his applications (small speakers placed on the floor). I have found that his prices are generally fair. I have done many comparisons on finished and raw products and his prices tend to be reasonable (given this "hobby"). Take his maple platforms, for instance, I have done a bit of research to see if his prices were fair. They are. Did I agree that placing his platforms under my Logan and/or Magnepan speakers was a good idea? No. His brass footers are expensive but when you price the cost of brass and include the milling, they are reasonable. I am still debating using them under my speakers, but I have other priorities. I don't agree with his cabling philosophy but is isn't much weirder than many other companies. He found something that works for his ears and his many customers.
As far as http://www.audioholics.com/education...019s-the-point is concerned, perhaps you should read the article carefully. From the same article:
One size doesn't fit all.
If you feel the need to not visit us again, I wouldn't object given the tone and nature of your tirade.
camflan
Active member
Well said.
I wanted the link to speak for itself regarding the spikes especially of all the talk of reducing vibrations which spikes amplify. Yes it's a choice between coupling or decoupling. I seriously doubt spikes themselves have a sonic signature that's noticeable, which was originally all I wanted to state (outside the ability to control rake), only if it penetrates carpet or grips the surface well enough. i.e. which sound better, Maple Shade spikes vs Stock spikes, which I may have erroneously attributed to this thread.
Regarding Maple Shade, you know what they say about opinions and arseholes right? However that doesn't give Gordon Gray the right to reply the way he did. I've seen him be rude to other noobs before on here and it's uncalled for.
I edited that part out. I let it get to me when I shouldn't have. I think I'll stick around. The pot needs stirred once in a while right?
Regarding Maple Shade, you know what they say about opinions and arseholes right?
However that doesn't give Gordon Gray the right to reply the way he did. I've seen him be rude to other noobs before on here and it's uncalled for.I edited that part out. I let it get to me when I shouldn't have. I think I'll stick around. The pot needs stirred once in a while right?
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invenio
Well-known member
Wow, the tone of this thread went south really fast. My mapleshade feet came with my Vantages when I bought them (in addition to some upgraded power cords). I have tried taking them off and putting the stock ones in and I feel that they do improve the sound quality. No it's not dramatic but I find they add clarity to the sound, especially when playing at high volumes. I think people's outcomes are going to vary depending on their speakers, floor type, room acoustics, etc...
A comment on pricing... as mentioned above, I didn't buy these myself but they don't seem "very" expensive considering that the MSRP of ML speakers are in the thousands of dollars. My family owns a tool and die shop and I can tell you that if you came to us and requested us to make 8 of these feet and copy off the mapleshade design, we would probably charge you around 1 to 2 thousand dollars. These are not mass produced in some Chinese factory so when your talking limited production runs the price will be much more expensive than just the "brass" wholesale price.
As for the general tone of this thread, everybody is entitled to their own opinion and we should be respectful of that.
A comment on pricing... as mentioned above, I didn't buy these myself but they don't seem "very" expensive considering that the MSRP of ML speakers are in the thousands of dollars. My family owns a tool and die shop and I can tell you that if you came to us and requested us to make 8 of these feet and copy off the mapleshade design, we would probably charge you around 1 to 2 thousand dollars. These are not mass produced in some Chinese factory so when your talking limited production runs the price will be much more expensive than just the "brass" wholesale price.
As for the general tone of this thread, everybody is entitled to their own opinion and we should be respectful of that.
Gordon Gray
Well-known member
Hi all,
First off , I want to apologize to Tch and other forum members for my aggressive tone in the last sentence. It was inappropriate and indefensible.
Second, I will be the first to admit that Mapleshade's marketing is clearly on the cheesy side.
Back on topic.
Given the fact that Tch apparently has not heard any of the MS products in his system, and I assume anyone else's system, how can Tch make informed representations regarding the product?
In truth and absent the fact that I have tried numerous MS products (including his speaker wire, interconnects, power strip, power cords, brass cones, and CD treatment), what I find incredulous is how one can have an opinion on any audio product without trying it?
A recent example was a thread that I unfortunately participated in regarding the Marigo mat. At least half of the posts were made by individuals that, by their own admission, had never listened to the device. And, of course, they stated that those who did try it, and found it beneficial, were crazy, delusional, etc.
Please hang here Tch but consider the following. Provide input on audio products that you have personally auditioned so that it can be an informed opinion and not pure speculation. Don't attack or otherwise make disparaging remarks about a manufacturer's products unless you have a rational, defensible basis for doing so.
GG
First off , I want to apologize to Tch and other forum members for my aggressive tone in the last sentence. It was inappropriate and indefensible.
Second, I will be the first to admit that Mapleshade's marketing is clearly on the cheesy side.
Back on topic.
Given the fact that Tch apparently has not heard any of the MS products in his system, and I assume anyone else's system, how can Tch make informed representations regarding the product?
In truth and absent the fact that I have tried numerous MS products (including his speaker wire, interconnects, power strip, power cords, brass cones, and CD treatment), what I find incredulous is how one can have an opinion on any audio product without trying it?
A recent example was a thread that I unfortunately participated in regarding the Marigo mat. At least half of the posts were made by individuals that, by their own admission, had never listened to the device. And, of course, they stated that those who did try it, and found it beneficial, were crazy, delusional, etc.
Please hang here Tch but consider the following. Provide input on audio products that you have personally auditioned so that it can be an informed opinion and not pure speculation. Don't attack or otherwise make disparaging remarks about a manufacturer's products unless you have a rational, defensible basis for doing so.
GG
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tsv_1
Well-known member
If only I had never heard Apogees before... then I could blissfully hammer on Justin and his delusional love for those ribbonous monstrosities. Alas, I've owned Duetta Sigs and can personally atest to their awesomeness. Damn it!
Gordon Gray
Well-known member
Hi Joel,
I had oregondv make some custom 1.5" cones for my MBL's. These sit on the BDR "pucks". I tried good old hocky pucks for awhile but I found the sound a bit too warm for me in the mid / low bass. Spiking directly into the floor definitely transferred bass energy to the wood floor and caused bass definition anomalies.
With my SL3's, I used the threaded Mapleshade brass cones with very good results. With my Summits, I purchased Jason's custom / adjustable cones. ML now produces / supplies a similar product that allows for rake angle adjustment.
Camron, measurements aside, you might try some type of platform and then spike to that. In the end, it seems reasonable that you trust your ears since this is audio.
Tch, the comedy skit was funny.
GG
I had oregondv make some custom 1.5" cones for my MBL's. These sit on the BDR "pucks". I tried good old hocky pucks for awhile but I found the sound a bit too warm for me in the mid / low bass. Spiking directly into the floor definitely transferred bass energy to the wood floor and caused bass definition anomalies.
With my SL3's, I used the threaded Mapleshade brass cones with very good results. With my Summits, I purchased Jason's custom / adjustable cones. ML now produces / supplies a similar product that allows for rake angle adjustment.
Camron, measurements aside, you might try some type of platform and then spike to that. In the end, it seems reasonable that you trust your ears since this is audio.
Tch, the comedy skit was funny.
GG
FoxMulder
Well-known member
I also have had great success with the MapleShade products. Their CDs are quite extraordinary too. Pierre is an interesting guy to talk to. I've meet him several times and enjoyed getting his "take on everything audio". Adona Corp. has some nice spikes and cones also.
projectormovielover
Well-known member
Lets talk about power cords lol
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