Why does the Martin Logan Sounce NOT sound like an electrostat?

Why does the Martin Logan Source NOT sound like an electrostat?

Over the past 15 years I've owned:

ML Vantage, Vista, Monolith, Request, Quest Z's, SL3's, Aerius I's, and 3 different pairs of CLSiiz's. It's fair to say I've some idea what to expect from a ML speaker or in the very least am familiar with the ML SOUND.

Here's the short story. I sampled a like new pair of NOS ML Source speakers in my own system with both quality SS amps (pass and rowland) and tube amps ( manley ref 450 mono's and prima luna 7 mono's).

After one week in my home they still don't sound like an electrostat, or at least no electostat I've heard from ML. Can anyone comment who owns Source speakers or have heard them enough to have developed a sense of the Source's performance?

I'm not downing the Source's I'm simply attempting to establish what's up with these speakers. This pair sounds like an ordinary box type speaker in my system. Zero clarity, no crystal clear cymbals with sizzle...no pizazz...just absolute blah...What's up?

Thx in advance. Happy holiday to all!

2b

I'll have to give them a listen.

Could it be the mid-range crossover?

http://www.martinlogan.com/products/source

470 hz is close to what my original Aerius speaker's crossover at (and they needed hi-frequency help).

Could it be the panel size?

With that long speaker list of yours I'm assuming most of those were used speakers and that these are as well. Have you cleaned/vacuumed them yet?

I have heard Sources a few times and thought that they sounded pretty good for what they are and I've had summit x, summit, ascent i, aerius i. :-\

kach22i said:

I'll have to give them a listen.

Could it be the mid-range crossover?

http://www.martinlogan.com/products/source

470 hz is close to what my original Aerius speaker's crossover at (and they needed hi-frequency help).

Could it be the panel size?

With that long speaker list of yours I'm assuming most of those were used speakers and that these are as well. Have you cleaned/vacuumed them yet?

Click to expand...

I've owned both new and used. What's the point of that ? for even USED panels still project like a Martin Logan. The source didn't come about until 2007 so how used could the panels be.

A cymbal via a ML still has that signature sizzle you don't find any ANY other speaker does it not?

This pair of speakers sound like music being played back through an ordinary box speaker. There's nothing I've heard the past week that would identify these as an electrostat or any ML I've heard in the past 30 years.

I've setup the same you would for a pair of Vista's.

Hola. Something must be wrong with them. The Absolute Sound Mag, honored them as the best speaker for low budget some time ago. If these speakers were bad, or do not have the ML siganture, they would not warrat any mention... give to the panels a good wash with mild water, let them stand and soak dry for a couple of days, and listen to them again... perhaps this will make them alive again. Happy listening.

roberto said:

Hola. Something must be wrong with them. The Absolute Sound Mag, honored them as the best speaker for low budget some time ago. If these speakers were bad, or do not have the ML siganture, they would not warrat any mention... give to the panels a good wash with mild water, let them stand and soak dry for a couple of days, and listen to them again... perhaps this will make them alive again. Happy listening.

Click to expand...

Hola. These aren't like removing the rails on a pair of SL3's and BAM you're free to remove the panel and head for the shower.

Besides, a speaker this new doesn't need a shower. They're new, for they were only displayed in an office environment and virtually unplayed. I've not check the serial numbers but who knows could be they're not even 2 years old.

Yes, I read the TAS review before buying this pair, which is why I bought them to see what all the fuss was about.

But I got to give it to the bass end of things...nice, tight, musical bass, which is a surprise for ML...it's the mids and treble's that aren't up to par... not a ML electrostat sound at all...the mid's and uppers sound filtered without the clarity you'd anticipate from a 'stat.

Buy hey, the blue lights are coooooool!

Is there anywhere in town that you could hear another pair to see if you think they sound similar? I really don't think the source is a bad speaker. I remember them not being as bright as the upper end models, but still clear and a great mid range.

Hocky said:

Is there anywhere in town that you could hear another pair to see if you think they sound similar? I really don't think the source is a bad speaker. I remember them not being as bright as the upper end models, but still clear and a great mid range.

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I just called ML to date the speakers. They're produced in '09, so panel age or a dirty panel isn't the issue. Unfortunately the speaker was discontinued earlier this year if I'm not mistaken so no retailer has a pair of these on the floor to hear. I acquired these from a former ML retailer employee who bought them at an employee discount who suggested they were only setup on office display at some business. For all I know they've no time on them. There wasn't a scratch on the speakers when I unboxed them so for all I know they simply need breaking in. I'm going to run them in good for a few weeks to see if the panels liven up at all. The bass end is not performing like a speaker that needs breaking in...it's as musical on the low end as my former Vantages. Well, time will tell if these stay or go.

Thanks to all for their input and happy holidays to all in the MLO forum!

2b:music:

If you listen the speaker at the front, do you listen the highs? Move your ears over all the surface of the panel... all the surface must produce even sound of mids and highs. This model is very position dependent. I had them some time and I did like what I got through them. Got ML magic too. You don't know what the dealer was doing with them... I will try the shower process and it is not that difficilt to do. There are four screws on each side that you have to remove and unconnect the panel wires. Try it, there is nothing to loose trying and who knows, you might get lucky and make them to sing again. Happy listening!

2beornot2bop said:

...........only setup on office display at some business.

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Was the business on a dirt road?

Were heavy smokers employed?

Of course you do not know, therefore an assumption based on age alone does not eliminate the dirt/dust issue completely.

2beornot2bop said:

........ For all I know they've no time on them.

Click to expand...

Maybe it's a break-in issue then.

don't forget to check if the power supply connectors are seated in the sockets. takes a bit of a push. Also a tip on the tilt. Remove the heavy base, remove the rubber plugs and you will see threads that will take the spikes. this is a 6.5 degree tilt that was a great compromise that i use on Purity and was how the speaker was origonally designed to be set.

You for sure are not hearing a proper set of ML source. I own them and have them mated with a stage and 2 matinee for surrounds and when its all hooked up to an anthem avm its the best. I put my source through a tube setup and the highs are missing a little but its still great. I love ML speakers and have heard alot of other models

Well, after further investigation I've found this was a brand new UNUSED floor demo pair that didn't get used.

What a difference 10 days of use makes!

I'm happy to report that there's been a very noticeable improvement with the Sources and they're now producing the ML sound I'm so familiar with. Pretty impressive for such a small panel.

What's the theory of having 40% of the panel blocked by the wood base? I've never seen a ML panel design that had an obstruction immediately behind the panel as is the case in the Source.

Anyone have any ideas on how this blocked panel design effects the speakers performance?

Aside from that curiosity all is well for the panels are clearly breaking in and revealing a very noticeable and positive difference. Thanks to all for the input!

2b

Peter Soderberg said:

don't forget to check if the power supply connectors are seated in the sockets. takes a bit of a push. Also a tip on the tilt. Remove the heavy base, remove the rubber plugs and you will see threads that will take the spikes. this is a 6.5 degree tilt that was a great compromise that i use on Purity and was how the speaker was origonally designed to be set.

Click to expand...

I'd sure like to learn more about that. This pair came without spikes. Just out of curiosity I tilted my previous CLSiiZ's mounted on Arcici stands and to my delight I much preferred them tilted towards my ears than the stock setup for them. The sonic comparison wasn't even close.

kach22i said:

Maybe it's a break-in issue then.

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Guessed it; even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while.

Yes, you need to spike these speakers.

Get the biggest heaviest ones you can afford.

I like the sound of brass, I hope to get some of these one day:
http://shop.mapleshadestore.com/Threaded-Megafeet/products/102/

kach22i said:

Guessed it; even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while.

Yes, you need to spike these speakers.

Get the biggest heaviest ones you can afford.

I like the sound of brass, I hope to get some of these one day:
http://shop.mapleshadestore.com/Threaded-Megafeet/products/102/

Click to expand...

Yep Kach, you nailed it big timers. It's a night and day difference since I initiated the thread. I've a set of ML adjustable spikes from my previous Summit's. They were like $200 a set of 8 if I recall correctly. I'll have to check to see if the threads match. Even without spikes beneath the speakers the bass is fairly impressive. Heck, my old Requests or Monolith III's didn't have as tight a bass as these modest Sources...anyway not a bad score off my local Craigs for $750.

Happy holidays to all and thanks again for the input!