Page 3 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast
Results 31 to 45 of 66

Thread: Modifying the Odyssey crossover - my adventure

  1. #31
    Member Ps68's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    104

    Default

    Yes, they could be Bennics, they are badged ML, no other name.
    Update when you get the inductors, the caps should be well run in by then..
     

  2. #32
    Senior Member MPS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Finland
    Posts
    444

    Default

    Thank you Spectral for your informative and enthusiastic report. Reading your comments leaves me no choice but to modify my xovers too.. Being the cheap barstand that I am, I will go for a more budget oriented approach. I will surely report my findings in this forum for the public demand

    I can't see anyway how basic component modification could fail unless one is absolutely 100% satisfied with his speakers. ML is using the industry standard Solen which is fine but far from the best. I have always found these basic MKPs somewhat dull and soft as opposed to crisp and open. Electrolytics in the low pass section is really a shame but nothing exceptional from a manufacturer. They lack in sonics and will not hold as well over the time as foil types.

    I have set an order for 7 (14) capacitors to replace 5 (10) capacitors in xover(s). Order value is 310 which equals to one half decent interconnect
    More to follow..

  3. #33
    Banned
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    NE USA
    Posts
    327

    Default

    MPS - let us know...

    The Mundorf coils will take another 3 weeks to arrive, so we are talking ~ Thanksgiving installation...

  4. #34
    Banned
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    NE USA
    Posts
    327

    Default

    The Mundorf panel coils are finally arriving this Wednesday 11/30, due to enormous delays at Mundorf and Fedex (shipment was sitting in Fedex/DE for 9 days due to "bulked out aircraft" - meaning, higher priority items were pushing it out)... But at least the caps have now settled down, and I'll say again - WOW, how did I live w/o them for so long. I've been listening mostly to CDs that I haven't touched for over a year at least, and I am extremely impressed... last one was a soprano singing Haydn - truly incredible dynamics and overall rendering.

    The decision to go with banks of capacitors for the larger values was a risky move - the caps may have not ended up charging and discharging at the same time, causing disaster - but in the end I was convinced by others to do it. The end result is much purer capacitance by reducing in-series resistance and inductance (obviously because they were connected in parallel). Although this move did also push the price higher, it was probably worth it.

    The reason for replacing the panel coils next is to put in as pure cooper with less loss as possible, considering the hundreds of feet of wire involved. We'll see how that plays out, this weekend.

  5. #35
    Member Ps68's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    104

    Default

    It's great to hear how things are developing Spectral, be sure to post your findings with the inductor replacements..

    Some of my parts are here, still waiting for the Duelund resistors, not sure why so long though.. MR caps are big, though not an issue for me due to ext cases. Anyway, I'm really looking forward to getting going with the build, the caps and foils have been on my burner for 5 days so should just need a bit of time to settle/form. Did your Mundorfs settle down quickly?

    Best Regards
    Ps

  6. #36
    Banned
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    NE USA
    Posts
    327

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ps68 View Post
    Did your Mundorfs settle down quickly?
    Took them about 200 hours, as expected, with wild variations during that period... I will post thoughts on the coils hopefully this weekend

  7. #37
    Banned
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    NE USA
    Posts
    327

    Default

    So the panel coils are in... Quick measurements: the larger coil measures 0.1 ohms resistance vs 1.5 in the stock. I am not sure what the new lower-resistance, 14awg (vs 16-18 in the stock) coils have done to the impedance, but initial impressions are that there is a very slight improvement in terms of dynamic headroom, perhaps less than half a dB.

    I did upgrade one speaker first again, and did the channel switching thing using the revox, and heard only slight differences, certainly nothing like the night-and-day with the caps. We'll see how things change over time, but one thing that particularly pleases me is how crisp and dynamic timpani sound, with no overhang.

    I am not sure if I want to replace the woofer coils at this point, or experiment with the Accuton drivers (which are similar but perhaps not close enough), or just enjoy music... Will post pictures next.

  8. #38
    Banned
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    NE USA
    Posts
    327

    Default

    And here are some pictures - thankfully there was plenty of room to work in...

    Name:  IMG_4610-2.jpg
Views: 1692
Size:  33.8 KB
    Name:  IMG_4620-2.jpg
Views: 1568
Size:  63.1 KB
    Name:  IMG_4617-2.jpg
Views: 1628
Size:  68.1 KB

  9. #39
    Member Ps68's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    104

    Default

    Nice work Peter, your first pic could have been from my camera, our coils are the same. Have you upgraded both speakers or just the one so far? Not sure how much burn in they need but mine will come off the burner tonight, 5 days on.
    How, from memory, would you compare your sound now to Summit x when you heard them? I know some time has passed, though any thoughts would be of interest.

  10. #40
    Banned
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    NE USA
    Posts
    327

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ps68 View Post
    Nice work Peter, your first pic could have been from my camera, our coils are the same. Have you upgraded both speakers or just the one so far? Not sure how much burn in they need but mine will come off the burner tonight, 5 days on.
    How, from memory, would you compare your sound now to Summit x when you heard them? I know some time has passed, though any thoughts would be of interest.
    Hi there, both speakers' panels are updated, and I think I will now upgrade the woofers' too, after taking space measurements last night and asserting that I can fit the monsters that I expect them to be.

    Copper will burn in but I don't know for how long. What I have noticed within a day is that this upgrade has significantly reduced distortion, and has now removed the last bit of strain I was able to detect with some very demanding instruments, like piano fortes (I use a Chesky/Earl Wild/Chopin Etudes CD primarily for this), and I have reached the point of wanting to turn the volume up to enjoy these extreme phenomena.

    Last night my jaw dropped listening to Bruch's Scottish Fantasy with Oistrakh, both on XRCD and LP. Extreme pinpointing of the violin; layers and layers of soundstage behind it; powerful, effortless and very realistic rendering of the violin right there in front of me - complete you-are-there emotion; total disbelief. It's great to be able to hear what a Stradivarius might really sound like... shivering...

    What this entire crossover update has achieved (and you'll see for yourself) is bring out the emotion in music reproduction. You will be stunned by how realistically strings are rendered (assuming upstream components are up to the task) - you will feel them vibrating (as opposed to making just a sound at some frequency); this is what the speed of an electrostat is all about. The speaker currently still significantly falls short in shear size of the orchestra, something it will never achieve, though still spectacular with great recordings, and of course the bass's speed can still be improved.

    WRT Summit X, yes it's been a little while since I last auditioned it (~7 weeks), but I am pretty certain this new Odyssey smokes it in just about every aspect: larger and faster panel (due to crossover updates), no rattling woofer enclosure (the X is really bad in that respect), higher level of realism than the X, less distortion; and I still think the tonality of the Summit series is tipped up higher and meant to be matched to the room by tilting, but up to a point - I like the vertical panels in the older speakers and the CLX. I intend to go back and re-listen to the X and the CLX, with the same music and driven by the same Spectral electronics. I think the question is not whether the new O's are better than the X, but rather how do I get my hands on a Monolith III to upgrade :-) now that would be the speaker to reproduce the size of the orchestra more realistically :-)
    Last edited by spectral; 12-06-2011 at 02:26 PM.

  11. #41
    Super User kach22i's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    1,809

    Default

    Looks like you really through yourself into this project.

    Conrgats.
    George; Architect
    Aerius 1992 vintage
    Tube powered at last!
    System # 42
    System Link

  12. #42
    Banned
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    NE USA
    Posts
    327

    Default

    Trust me, it's been rewarding but laborious and you couldn't pay me enough to do it again :-) I have updated the first post with attachments of the woofers' specifications for future reference

  13. #43
    Member Ps68's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    104

    Default

    This sounds great Peter, very exciting.. It appears that the inductors have continued with the improvements that the caps provided, and all is working well together.

    The emotional communication that you mention is exactly what i'm seeking, the holy grail of closing your eyes ( or listening in complete darkness) and genuinely feeling that there is a human presence there in the room with you, feeling the pinpoint location of the emanating textures of instruments and voice.

    My ML dealer was over this week, and commented on the speed and precision that these Spires are producing already, so i really am now wanting to get going on mine, ive been told the final bulk of the parts will be in this week.

    I think you should do the woofer coils too, what size are they?

    Best Regards,
    Paul.

  14. #44
    Banned
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    NE USA
    Posts
    327

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ps68 View Post
    I think you should do the woofer coils too, what size are they?

    Best Regards,
    Paul.
    They are on order for late January delivery (they have ran out of 14 gauge foils). They are going to be about 7lbs each! and 5.5 inches wide. You have done the best thing by moving the crossover outside the speaker. I will be looking at duelund and caddock resistors at some point as well. Let us know.

  15. #45
    Banned
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    NE USA
    Posts
    327

    Default Measurements

    Here are before and after frequency response graphs, and notice how the overall trend is now flat with the upgraded crossover:

    Old crossover (Sep 28, 2011):
    Name:  Old-Crossover.jpg
Views: 1491
Size:  38.5 KB

    New crossover (Jan 2, 2012):
    Name:  New-Crossover.jpg
Views: 1500
Size:  35.7 KB

    These were obtained with the Stereophile warble tones using the RadioShack SPL meter and were corrected per Rives' curve of said meter, using a 62dB 1kHz as reference
    Last edited by spectral; 01-04-2012 at 06:36 AM.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •