distance from back wall

I have had the Spires since this thursday. I moved these speakers back and forth alot ...

In my room the best sound has been at 7.5 ft from back wall and 1.75 ft from side wall.

The Cardas formula suggests roughly 5ft from back wall using their calculations but I did not like the sound with formula.

I live alone in private home, not apartment so no one to say anything about placement.

How many others from their speakers this far from back wall?

Dan

Hola Dan. Well it all depends from where do you like to be sitted. Remember that ML Spires are dipolars, in other words, positive transients to front and negative transients to back. The back wall also is like a mirrow and reflects the signal back to you, but with a time delay, making the stage. It is a matter of liking too. Too much apart, too much delay. Must be a balance and also liking. Some might think this is not important, but I suggest to you to Trust Your Ears. There is no test instrument that could measure what your ears tell you! There are many things that can not be measure, like the feeling of the musician(s), the nuances of the music, the size of the insrument(s), only your ears can tell and your liking sitting place, there... in your own room. Trained ears are not from the majority, but if we are with ML, this task is not that difficult, becasue we listen everything easy. Enjoy my friiend, and a little advice, there isn't the right place, always will be a different sitting place at the event, with the stage at front of us! Happy listening!

miatancdan said:

I have had the Spires since this thursday. I moved these speakers back and forth alot ...

In my room the best sound has been at 7.5 ft from back wall and 1.75 ft from side wall.



Dan

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They should be well away from the back wall, that's for sure. But 7.5 ft? You must have a big room - lucky you. If I had mine 7.5 ft from the rear wall then -well- they'd almost on top of my listening seat!

sorry to say but something dosen't make sense here..............you have a 10x20 room......I see no way in hell that placing your speakers 7 1/2 feet from any wall can yield sonic bliss........unless you have MAJOR acoustic treatment done. Your listening position must be right up against the wall...not good.

Usually start at 36in off front wall & pull forward till the bass gets thin then go back in small increments till the bottom gets solid. Then play the tilt & toe game, I would believe 7.5 ft off front wall would have too many milliseconds delay. It's fine if youu like that sort of airy image.

twich54 said:

sorry to say but something dosen't make sense here..............you have a 10x20 room......I see no way in hell that placing your speakers 7 1/2 feet from any wall can yield sonic bliss........unless you have MAJOR acoustic treatment done. Your listening position must be right up against the wall...not good.

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Listening positive is about 3 ft from back wall due to layout of room. There is hallway connecting to mid point of room on side of room /long wall. House built in the 1920's. Stereo equipment at one end, computer, bookshelves, sitting at other end.

see second picture and you see hallway dividing room

Looking at your picture above, IMHO, they are too far out and too close together. I would move them back to around 5 feet from rear wall and further apart.

Looks to be a very "live" room. That's probably why you don't like the speakers closer to the back wall. I'd suggest trying to "dampen" the room a bit and then experiment with different speaker placement options.

For starters, hand a blanket on the back wall and see what it does. If positive, you can purchase a nice floor rug as a substitute. Also try an area rug on the floor.

FWIW, I've owned four different ML's and consistently found (in 3 different rooms, 2 having wood floors) that 5 feet or so works quite well.

GG

Gordon Gray said:

Looks to be a very "live" room. That's probably why you don't like the speakers closer to the back wall. I'd suggest trying to "dampen" the room a bit and then experiment with different speaker placement options.

FWIW, I've owned four different ML's and consistently found (in 3 different rooms) that 5 feet or so works quite well.

GG

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Any suggestions of best way to dampen the room....

I think that having them a few feet off the wall is an absolute must for good sound. I have my Vantages about 5 ft from the front wall and even further from the side walls. I sit about 12 ft away from the speakers. The room is roughly 23x23 feet. Martin Logan recommends similar distances from the front wall, they are more lenient with the side walls. I think ESL generally need room to "breath", so the more room you give them the better.

Gordon Gray said:

Looks to be a very "live" room. That's probably why you don't like the speakers closer to the back wall. I'd suggest trying to "dampen" the room a bit and then experiment with different speaker placement options.

For starters, hand a blanket on the back wall and see what it does. If positive, you can purchase a nice floor rug as a substitute. Also try an area rug on the floor.

FWIW, I've owned four different ML's and consistently found (in 3 different rooms, 2 having wood floors) that 5 feet or so works quite well.

GG

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My thoughts exactly, you need some soft absorbent surfaces in the room or you will hear the room more than your spires, which are fabulous sounding speakers. Mine are 4ft from the front wall, and 5ft from the sides, 8 ft apart.. I'd guess that currently you are hearing little bass and plenty of mid/ top? As Gordon kindly suggested, hang rugs/ blankets temporarily until you get the correct size density etc, then go shopping and treat them as part of your system.

Happy listening,
Ps


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

miatancdan said:

Any suggestions of best way to dampen the room....

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Hello everyone, to the op, try this link for some ideas, just the basics.

http://youtu.be/ckoqpBmS_mw

This afternoon decided to try moving speakers to 5 feet from back wall. Bass has improved and now after playing music over 10 hours some of hardness has disappeared )))) Guess reason I had the speakers 7.5 ft from back room was to have more volume. I generally sit 12 to 14 away from front of stereo.

miatancdan said:

Any suggestions of best way to dampen the room....

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The very first thing you should do is place a rug between the speakers and your listening seat.

Hi Mi,

The speakers are new and going through break-in. Give them another hundred hours or so. Bass will become more coherent and the mids / highs will continue to soften a bit.

After that, treat the back wall and area rug treatment suggested by me and others. I think you will be pleased with the results. Given their incredible transparency, ML's take patience and attention to find their final position.

When you think you are getting closer, try judicious adjustments of the crossover volume on the back of the speaker. Should be quite audible to help you tune in the right amount of "body" in the midrange. You should also notice impact on the higher frequencies.

Also, remember to check "rake / vertical" angle of the panels, toe in, and distance from the back wall to insure that they are identical for both speakers.

Don't get frustrated and enjoy the process. It will all work out well in the end.

GG

PS: Regarding the rake angle, the closer to vertical will tend to provide more detail and a "quicker" transient response. You need to decide how much is appropriate given your room and equipment. Also, how the speaker is "coupled" to the floor will also have an audible impact. From my experience, it took me about 8 months to fine tune everything. YMMV.

By end of evening , I put the Spires back to 7.5 ft from back wall - do not know why at this distance less brightness, glare and better dynamics + more volume....

I did spread them further apart , now better soundstage ))))

It is a real pain when speakers not broken in , Ethos were broken in when I borrowed them from work...

Dan

Any suggestions of best way to dampen the room....

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Don't forget room treatment: Bass Traps. A couple of corner traps will help. Bass Traps can reduce glare and improve the soundstage. Try real traps or GIK. Its also easy to build bass traps. Check Real Traps web site or U tube.
I also would add a floor rug.

I'm not sure how anyone could expect good sound in that room.
You have a very nice system and a good amount of money in it. To invest some hundreds more in room treatments would be the best thing you could do IMO.
I can recommend GIK as I've dealt with them and know others who have as well. They will take a sketch of your room and suggest products that help. There are other companies as well.
Or you could get on the internet and get educated and try to do it yourself. That's what I did...that's how I ended up with GIK.

sebrof2000 said:

I'm not sure how anyone could expect good sound in that room.
You have a very nice system and a good amount of money in it. To invest some hundreds more in room treatments would be the best thing you could do IMO.
I can recommend GIK as I've dealt with them and know others who have as well. They will take a sketch of your room and suggest products that help. There are other companies as well.
Or you could get on the internet and get educated and try to do it yourself. That's what I did...that's how I ended up with GIK.

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+1 or 2, other brands include Realtraps, ASC, and ATS.