System #405 (Ascent i)

MartinLogan Audio Owners Forum

Help Support MartinLogan Audio Owners Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

Krazikiwi

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 26, 2010
Messages
139
Reaction score
1
Location
New Zealand
1. Member Name: F Jeff

2. Location: Middle Earth, New Zealand

3. ML Model(s): Ascent i

4. Year Purchased: 2005

5. Mods/Changes: none

6. Associated Electronics: QUAD 67 CD, QUAD 66 FM tuner QUAD 66 pre amp, QUAD 2x 606 power amps, Krell and AudioPlan cables

7. Comments and/or stories about your Martin Logan experience: So I am a hopeless case when it comes to QUAD gear, owning 4 generations of QUAD technology, all of them driving ‘stats’ of some kind (excepting the QUAD 405 amps currently driving KEF Q7’s). The 2 sets of Magnapans I used to own were driven by QUAD 303 and 405 amps respectively before making way for a QUAD 606 amp. When the ‘Maggies’ finally lost their mojo (I had already repaired and rewired the treble panels once before) it was time to buy a new pair of Martin Logan Ascent i’s.

Knowing the deathlike current sucking attributes of ML, I bought a second QUAD 606 amp so I could run the ML Ascent i’s bi amped and get more power into them. It would be fair to say that the Ascents i’s are delivering only 90% of their capabilities with the current dumping design the QUADs provide but the amps are unconditionally stable whatever the load. All generations of QUAD amps have their sonic DNA anchored in the valve sound of the original QUAD 22 amps, these 606’s are no exception and the result is a warm midrange with relaxed delivery on wood and wind instruments. Voice and piano are unhurried and full of timbre and body. To be fair, dynamic range is muted with highs a bit rolled off and there is none of the kick in the bass that say big muscle American amps deliver with MLs.

This system is in the dining room, sadly against the wall and in corners, not at all ideal but it really is a background system that I wanted to create to relax to with food, friends and family. It doesn’t draw attention to itself as a system and many a good evening has been had enjoying music and conversation over Italian reds and pasta. The natural delivery of instruments and voice is its strong suit and it is quintessentially British in its tonal signature.

It is my experience that the British concentrate their efforts in getting the midrange as natural and right as they can, often at the expense of high and low registers. The Germans love their technology and refinement to the point of absolute hifi transparency and ‘air’ over natural timbre of live instruments. American makers of hifi bring enjoyment to owners by their emphasis on dynamics and speed of delivery and damn the sonic consequences in my opinion. The Japanese seem to be fanatical in the materials used and finish to create a homogeneous delivery across the entire frequency spectrum, some would say with no ‘character’ but with fastidious attention to inner detail.
As always, Martin Logans are a ‘window’ to the gear driving them which I think makes them ideal carriers to show off different countries’ hifi equipment, their cultural touchstones and aural DNA.

Me? I like them all but think my Jeff Rowland/ML system combines all of the above in one system, none the less this QUAD/ML system is my modest homage to British hifi and music articulation UK style. A bit like cars really, each culture wants something different.

my 5c worth

Fjeff
 

Attachments

  • DSC_0095.jpg
    DSC_0095.jpg
    41.6 KB · Views: 916
Hi Jeff, I'd say "welcome", but we've been trading posts for a long time. Interesting story; you really are sold on midrange, and I have to agree with you on that (that's where all the female vocals reside).

You say "American makers of hifi bring enjoyment to owners by their emphasis on dynamics and speed of delivery and damn the sonic consequences in my opinion.", but your speakers are American! You also say "Me? I like them all but think my Jeff Rowland/ML system combines all of the above in one system,", but what Jeff Rowland (American) stuff are you referring to ?

I used to have Quad 57's driven by the 303, but just did not have the space for them. Funny, when you think that the average British living-room is smaller than the American.I hope you do at some point get to move those Ascents so that they have the room they need.
 
Should I shut up and just listen to the music?!

:D
Hi Jeff, I'd say "welcome", but we've been trading posts for a long time. Interesting story; you really are sold on midrange, and I have to agree with you on that (that's where all the female vocals reside).

You say "American makers of hifi bring enjoyment to owners by their emphasis on dynamics and speed of delivery and damn the sonic consequences in my opinion.", but your speakers are American! You also say "Me? I like them all but think my Jeff Rowland/ML system combines all of the above in one system,", but what Jeff Rowland (American) stuff are you referring to ?

I used to have Quad 57's driven by the 303, but just did not have the space for them. Funny, when you think that the average British living-room is smaller than the American.I hope you do at some point get to move those Ascents so that they have the room they need.

Hi Bernard,

I should preface my reply by saying these are my cultural observations and merely my opinion (willing to have it changed anytime) and I am not intending to be judgmental. The trouble with generalisations is they tend to bite back and there are always exceptions to the norm.

That out of the way, I think I found (for my cultural preferences) an American amplifier manufacturer who embodies that full dynamic delivery so typical of US designs but retained the full timbre of the midrange (a la Britain) with the 'air' so favoured by Germans. In other words, an exception to the rule, Jeff Rowland's Consummate pre amp with his Model 8 power amps. He does care about detail (how Japanese and German of him) but not to the point of 'etching' the sound to fake hifi detail. Some US amp makers have 'balls' in their delivery of dynamics but I find them either grainy or worse lumpy and coarse in their delivery, hence damn the sonic consequences.

I do think the sheer size of the North Americas means you guys are spoilt for choice and I feel fortunate to have been able to find and meet someone like Jeff Rowland personally and feel he understands how to transcend cultural differences to design hifi gear with aural DNA from each of his export markets.

Anyway, this QUAD system is modest, unassuming, even self effacing but you could be tied down for weeks in front of it and not tire of its midrange timbre, how English and yes I wish I could return to my oversized living of earlier years abroad to let it breath better but I love my MLs too much to part with them.

The QUAD 303 was a nice transistor amp, let down a little by the 33 preamp being a bit wholly I think but those ESL57s are fab considering their vintage. Go on Bernard, go out and put together a vintage QUAD system for a guest room, I dare you to rekindle an old hifi love!

Jeff
 
Last edited:
Power to the People

So as mentioned above, I resorted to using 2x QUAD 606 power amps to even get close to being able to get some 'grunt' out of the system into these power hungry Martin Logan Ascent i's. Higher silver content cables put a bit of 'light' on to constrained dynamics that some would level as a short coming of the QUAD 'sound' if that makes any sense. In other words, the sonic presentation appears a little more nimble whilst retaining moderate rhythmic pace and mid range warmth.

All a bit subjective but as an interesting aside, many classical musicians I know of, have QUAD gear in their homes for their own music listening. One is certainly aware of the 'physical' moving of air that comes with live classical recitals with QUAD's presentation of wood and wind instruments.

Anyway, another take on this this consuming hobby of ours, by no means the last word, just another view on system synergy and music delivery.

Jeff
 

Attachments

  • DSC_0093.jpg
    DSC_0093.jpg
    52.3 KB · Views: 805
Go on Bernard, go out and put together a vintage QUAD system for a guest room, I dare you to rekindle an old hifi love!

Jeff
Jeff,

If you shut up and just listened to the music you would be depriving us of your words of wisdom, so please continue to continue to expound on your theories. This would be a boring place indeed without diverse opinions. :bowdown:

As for setting up a vintage QUAD system, I would consider it if I had the room and if my main system were at optimum. As is, there is much room for improvement: My SL3's are 11 years old, my Koetsu is older, as is my preamp, etc. I would rather use available funds for just one great system instead of two compromised systems. And forget about HT; I have a 32" TV, and that's the extent of what it will always be.

The QUAD sound is indeed seductive. The first time I heard a QUAD system the speakers were mounted in corners on the ceiling of the room, and the (usually-drunk, a friend of mine claimed) British salesman was playing tapes from the BBC. There was a string quartet miraculously in the room. But it did not work in my small (16x12) room (the ceiling was not an option). However, there were magical moments when I dumped the 303, followed by a Class A SS Bedini amp, and used an old Dyna ST70 instead. :music:

Have you listened to any Sutherland amplification? Ron Sutherland is the guy who originally designed the electronics for ML.

BTW have you considered moving those jars out of the room to see if it makes a difference in the sound ?
 
Last edited:
So 'those jars' are Italian room tuning devices Bernard,

Each one takes about a month to handmake and are tuned to a specific low end frequency set as well as having standing wave dispersal properties, whilst their placement is poor, their function works a treat.......................

Did I get a rise there? :ROFL:.............just joking about my 'room tuners'!

The accompanying photo is not great and the QUADs deserve a better place to be shown off. I am not sure how much of an angliophile following they have Stateside, a fellow kiwi friend has sold his off as servicing is such a challenge in the US and I have led him astray into the Jeff Rowland way with MLs. As you can see they are 'midi' sized and have always been this way since QUAD's inception, light years before the Japanese created the commoditised midi audio segment.

Another aspect of QUAD that some find quirky is their colour choice which in the sixties was olive, orange and cream (together! I kid you not this time round!) in the 33/303 series of transistor technology. The grey you see is typically understated but timeless and ages well, the remote is more like a weapon but with its oversized buttons and volume dial, it is easy to use and even harder to lose!

I will admit QUAD appeals to older, more conservative buyers (short sighted as well if the remote styling is an indicator) but for many it solves 'upgrade-itess' and QUAD's spares and repair policy makes it the Harley Davidson of the hifi realm.

As an aside, I should add, I have felt that the modern QUAD electrostats are expensive and that other makes such as Magnaplanar and Martin Logan offer better value at their pricepoints. They also are more elegant in domestic settings in my opinion (and my wife's!)

As always, QUAD is about showing off the music, not the gear and the marque is still with us today having its beginnings in the 1930's.

Jeff
 

Attachments

  • DSC_0092.jpg
    DSC_0092.jpg
    23.3 KB · Views: 943
First off, very nice system! :) It sounds like you've taken a very careful approach in choosing the equipment (amps, cables, etc) that suits your tastes. Have you tried to pull the speakers out away from the walls a bit. The people at martin logan actually recommend 2 ft from the side and 5 ft from the back wall. I know this is not possible in many situations (like yours), but maybe just a few inches extra would improve your sound more than cables and even amps. I was watching one of the martin logan channel videos on youtube and they said that in their experience the overall sound quality is 60% speaker, 30% room/placement, and only 10% amp. Just wanted to get your opinion on this. Once again, congrats on the system!
 
So 'those jars' are Italian room tuning devices Bernard,

Each one takes about a month to handmake and are tuned to a specific low end frequency set as well as having standing wave dispersal properties, whilst their placement is poor, their function works a treat.......................

Did I get a rise there? :ROFL:.............just joking about my 'room tuners'!
Guess I'm really clueless. I thought that was where you stored your wine. :p
 
Jeff, I was looking at your systems and was wondering why one man needs three systems. You have said that you are pressed for space, so why not sell a couple of the systems (I'm sure the Burmesters would bring in a lot of lolly) and use the money to renovate and knock down a few walls, making one large room for one killer system.
 
First off, very nice system! :) It sounds like you've taken a very careful approach in choosing the equipment (amps, cables, etc) that suits your tastes. Have you tried to pull the speakers out away from the walls a bit. The people at martin logan actually recommend 2 ft from the side and 5 ft from the back wall. I know this is not possible in many situations (like yours), but maybe just a few inches extra would improve your sound more than cables and even amps. I was watching one of the martin logan channel videos on youtube and they said that in their experience the overall sound quality is 60% speaker, 30% room/placement, and only 10% amp. Just wanted to get your opinion on this. Once again, congrats on the system!

Hi Invenio,

Having had all this gear in a previous home overseas that was 5300sq ft in size, getting all of these speakers to 'breathe' or 'sing' properly was easy with so much space. Arriving back in New Zealand to expensive housing relative to income (6x average annual salary vs USA at 2.5 years has impacted on the systems somewhat. I consider this time in my life a season that will change with time and eventually have more space again (or less hifi!) as family life changes.

It is my experience that the physical interactions have the greatest influence on sound and can actually be the cheapest way to improve a system's sound. Apart from the space aspect, mechanical vibration is the biggest killer of good reproduction and one of the easiest to experiment with. On my main system, I have gone to great lengths to isolate every component from mechanical influence, this brought about the most improvement, particularly on source equipment.

The best part is you can insert and then remove and then repeat to build up knowledge and predictable outcomes. This site is a good starting point, there are many others out there as well as this forum of course with it's accumulated experience. http://www.audioplan.eu/

Have fun, it's about the music ultimately.

Fjeff
 
Last edited:
Jeff, I was looking at your systems and was wondering why one man needs three systems. You have said that you are pressed for space, so why not sell a couple of the systems (I'm sure the Burmesters would bring in a lot of lolly) and use the money to renovate and knock down a few walls, making one large room for one killer system.

Ah yes, need and want, two quite different things Bernard,

Trust me, I would love to build big again, it was originally the plan but various things changed that (for now) including the new 'normal' in real estate world wide and the financial exposure we have brought upon ourselves in the western world. So for now I am hunkered down a little in an old character home in a 'good' area but somewhat space challenged and not wishing to over capitalize until this is all over. Because of the fundamentals globally, I think we have a hard decade ahead of us as our western societies and therefore economies change big time so a big house becomes a liability or a way to take bath on one's accumulated life savings.

Not really the right venue to talk about this but it is a snapshot on the current state of play(back!) for me. For me, my Jeff Rowland system is the killer system (just not the house, for now), the rest of the systems are pure indulgence and for enjoying in those 'small moments' with others.

Now, wine storage, you and I need to find another forum Bernard! Hic! Needless to say I built my own wine cellar, the acoustics are not bad:guiness::guiness::guiness: down there!

Fjeff
 
Now, wine storage, you and I need to find another forum Bernard! Hic! Needless to say I built my own wine cellar, the acoustics are not bad:guiness::guiness::guiness: down there!

Fjeff
Jeff, you are no doubt unaware that there is a wine and cheese thread on this forum.
 

Latest posts

Back
Top