Summit X with the Devialet D-Premier

Hi all,

I've just made the big jump and am now powering my Summit Xs with the Devialet D-Premier.

To those who haven't heard the buzz about the new amp: it's a french 16K USD wonder that is an integrated amp with DAC built in. It's a combined class D/class A amp, with class D being the power workhorse, the class A part responsible for the refined sound. Don't ask me how it exactly works. The reviews worldwide are incredible, most magazines rank this amp with the best of the very best, equal to a 50K system if you bought the components individually.

Any of you have experiences with this combination? I'd love to hear those.

Frankly, I am both overwhelmed and disappointed. Overwhelmed as I have never before heard this clarity throughout the range and the deepest bass. I am used to all stereos having (to a certain extent) the boombox effect - all deep instruments lower than 100Hz sound like "OOMPF", i. e. all the same.

Not so with the Devialet/SummitXs: the lowest of the lowest frequencies have clear positions in the room and are incredibly controlled. Better then in a live performing (I guess this is because the microphones get normally better positioning than the audience).

However, the precision of the Devialet and of the Summit X's strikes me as too much – the system has turned from an enthusiastic music device into a forensic machine. I've never had such a neutral yet emotionless "view" of my music. I listen to classical only, btw.

Here's how I have partly solved the issue:

1) I removed all room treatment (carpet, wall panel)

2) I added an EQ using iTunes & Amarra

3) I tilted the Summits about 45 and 60 degrees to the side, so I'd get mostly indirect sound.

Am I crazy? Any experiences like this?

Happy to hear comments & recommendations

Nils

P.S.: I used two McIntosh MC 275 before. Beautiful, beautiful sound, awful bass, resolution wouldn't handle more than 3 or 4 instruments.

With all due respect, if that unit has caused you to go to those measures so you can enjoy the music, you may want to reconsider the unit.

Raves are one thing. Proper system set up / musicality is another.

The speaker set up is extremely unconventional. Imaging / dimensionality has to be compromised along with speed and transient response.

But, if you like it, that's all that matters.

GG

You're not getting anywhere near the optimal imaging, soundstage depth, and tonality with such a setup. Ideally, you want the Summits symmetrically placed at least 3-4 feet from the front wall. You can then adjust rake angle and toe-in to suit your sound preferences. Judicious use of room acoustic treatments (various combinations of absorption and diffusion, plus bass traps) will also be beneficial. I certainly wouldn't add EQ until you optimize everything first, and perhaps carry out some speaker/room freq response measurements if you're not happy with the sound. If you bought the Summit X locally, perhaps your dealer can assist further with setup. Otherwise, try to find some experienced local high-end audio enthusiast (preferably one using ML's or other electrostatic or dipole designs) and see if they can help.

If you can post some room pictures, and exact room/ceiling dimensions, we might be able to offer additional guidance here.

Gordon Gray said:

With all due respect, if that unit has caused you to go to those measures so you can enjoy the music, you may want to reconsider the unit.

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Agreed. Not sure what is wrong here. But that's not an ideal setup. Something needs to change.

Hi all,

well, if I wasn't suspicious about the setup, I wouldn't have posted it here as a question. It's just that I keep noticing that the stunning absence of anything that isn't on the recording (don't know how else to put it - it's like the CD is playing directly in my brain, but with all the spatial information) is too neutral for me. Or in other words: My brain says "perfect system", my gut says "meh, boring".

I keep noticing when I am to the side of the speakers, I naturally hear much more room reflections, which makes the sound richer and more engaging.

sleepysurf, amey01, I am familiar with the recommended placement of ML, and I believe they recommend it to get less reflections, more details, more spacious sound. I guess with pristine electrostats, a top-notch class A 2x240W amplifier and really short speaker cables and digital input, I have moved too close to perfect. In other words, I may have left the realm of high-end audio and have entered the world of studio monitors. Not to say the one is better than the other, but I think at home you'll want more of "beautiful", less "detailed".

The strange thing is that as a musician, I have always been unhappy with the lack of highs and spatial/detail resolution of any stereo I have pretty much ever heard, so the more I am surprised to learn now that too neutral/too detailed seems to exist. I did hear this very combination extensively at my dealer for quite a while, but I was maybe paying too much attention with my mind, going through my checklist of criteria, which this combination all passed superbly.

Thanks for the input,

Nils

BTW, do you guys believe I can use the amp as a preamp to my tube monoblocks? I don't have the cash to keep my DAC and preamp, but if I could use the Devialet alternatively has main amp or as preamp for the tube monoblocks, that might give me both worlds without a full rack.

What do you think?

NKokemohr said:

BTW, do you guys believe I can use the amp as a preamp to my tube monoblocks? I don't have the cash to keep my DAC and preamp, but if I could use the Devialet alternatively has main amp or as preamp for the tube monoblocks, that might give me both worlds without a full rack.

What do you think?

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Wow - that's big. The Devialet is not a cheap amp for an experiment gone wrong. How many other amps did you listen to? Why did you decide on the Devialet? If I were you, I'd be taking it back quick-smart (while you can) and exchange it for something else. You obviously don't like it.

I think that this thread is a just a setup to generate controversy; anyone who wants mostly indirect sound would just buy Bose. Your name rings a bell in connection with another thread that was questionable.

Or with all respect, please visit your otorhinolaryngologist... there is something wrong with your hearing... no way a Summit X should be use like your setting! It would be like a joke. On the other hand, it is your system, and your liking, enjoy it if you like it that way...but none of us will use or will try to use your set up for sure!!!! Happy listening,
R.

Bernard said:

I think that this thread is a just a setup to generate controversy; anyone who wants mostly indirect sound would just buy Bose. Your name rings a bell in connection with another thread that was questionable.

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Jeeeze, I like to give folks the benefit of the doubt up front when something comes from waaaay outside the box like this, but I think Bernard's wrong-dar might be right. My first and last comment on this thread. Cheers.

not trying to troll

Hi all again,

sorry if you think I'm making fun of you, that was not my intention. Here are 2 images of my system. One is the setup when using the MC275s (MLs in normal setup) and one I prefer when using the Devialet (Summits tilted).

Believe me, I wouldn't spend over 30k on equipment for the sake of trolling.

Of course the idea of tilting the things is uncommon and suitable to generate a controversy, but that's why I posted it. If I had no concerns about the directness of my system, I wouldn't start a discussion on it.

If anyone has experience with too direct sounding MLs or particularly the Devialet on electrostats, please let me know what you think.

Nils

NKokemohr said:

Hi all again,

sorry if you think I'm making fun of you, that was not my intention. Here are 2 images of my system. One is the setup when using the MC275s (MLs in normal setup) and one I prefer when using the Devialet (Summits tilted).

Believe me, I wouldn't spend over 30k on equipment for the sake of trolling.

Of course the idea of tilting the things is uncommon and suitable to generate a controversy, but that's why I posted it. If I had no concerns about the directness of my system, I wouldn't start a discussion on it.

If anyone has experience with too direct sounding MLs or particularly the Devialet on electrostats, please let me know what you think.

Nils

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Hola Nils... mmm please read the Summit X manual. There, you have a detail explanation of how the dispersion of ML curvilinear electrostatic panel behavior is. Seeing your pics, you could have part of the stat panel covering your listening seat...but you are loosing totally the benefit of the 3 D sound. Also, do not use the eq. at all. The frequency response of your SummitsX are fantastic and you do not need to. If you use it, it will spoil the panel coherence. If you use an eq, you have phase shift!!! This is bad for the size of the instruments. You can listen it this way: bring to minimun your volume knob, then switch the eq on, and listen your favorite passage of your most liking music, then bring to minimun again the volume knob, switch off the eq, and play the same passage at the same listening level as was with your eq on, but this time you have to use more volume to reach the same SPL as was with the eq. This will tell you exact how wrong is your eq. (with all respect). If you have to use it, then you have a problem with the stat panels... listen if all the panel is producing sound, all surfase fo the stat panel must produce sound. I think that you have problems with your stat panels... happy listening,
R.

NKokemohr said:

Believe me, I wouldn't spend over 30k on equipment for the sake of trolling.

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Granted, but by the same token, I don't know anyone who would "spend [gamble?] over 30k on equipment for the sake of" experimenting, and be unsure of the results it would bring. Then post to strangers on an internet forum that you are p1ssed off with the results. Geez - big money for an uncertain (and ultimately a poor) result.

Nils,

There's been alot of discussion about rake angle, or to use your term, tilting.

However, its been within the context of a "typical" set up and not the bizarre way you have your speakers arranged.

GG

I think if you upgrade your camera, you will gain in areas of improved imagery, spatial cues, focus and resolution. What's more, a $200 camera should do the trick these days

On the off chance this is serious, those Summits look very close together. How far away are you seated from them? What are the room dimensions?

Suggested reading: Gordon's, Gordon Gray's and Rich's comments on this thread:

http://www.martinloganowners.com/fo...ow-think-it-s-nonsense/page3&highlight=spaker

Thanks for the history Bernard.

I understand the situation much better.

GG