tsv_1
Well-known member
LOL !!! Love the honesty
Munich Hi-End 2011 Hi-Fi Show
- Thread starter User211
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LOL !!! Love the honesty
User211
Well-known member
You won't be disappointed I've got Zigabytes of the stuff Tim!!!
Blades - best I can do is a pic. But KEF were running a DVD (er - Blu Ray) of an amazing guitar player - Joe Bonamassa doing Woke Up Dreaming. Not really my cup of tea but he is stunning.
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User211
Well-known member
If you want honest I have learnt one thing. The road ends at AG Trios and basshorns. Everything else - just pretending.
amey01
Well-known member
These look interesting. The website is rubbish though - lots of 404 errors.
Gordon Gray
Well-known member
Justin,
I'm glad you like the AG's. I've heard them at various shows and locally with some highly rated electronics.
They've consistently sound dry and sterile with no midrange body and texture.
Maybe someone has figured out how to make them sound musical.
Thanks for the show coverage and pictures.
GG
I'm glad you like the AG's. I've heard them at various shows and locally with some highly rated electronics.
They've consistently sound dry and sterile with no midrange body and texture.
Maybe someone has figured out how to make them sound musical.
Thanks for the show coverage and pictures.
GG
User211
Well-known member
Dry & sterile, Gordon? I wish you were in that room with me!!! I'll say more later...
tsv_1
Well-known member
Hey... that's exactly what my wife says about me... "dry and sterile"
Justin, I'm sure the AG Trios sounded glorious given your praise in print. One thing that always leaves me a bit on edge though wrt horns is their high efficiency. I absolutely can not stand any white noise at all (in between tracks) when listening from the primary sitting position. At >105dB @ 1 wt/m only the most insanely low noisefloor amp has any hope of not having it's dirty floor-laundry trumpeted for all to hear. Sure, at a show when there's usually relatively high ambient room noise, it's a non-issue, but in a dead quiet listening room with super-high efficiency horns that just want to couple-the-hell out of even the most minute diaphram movement out into the listening space - there's no dismissing the hissing. Heck, even the 91dB of my CLXs is borderline, and that's with the crazy-low noisefloor of the ModWrights. This noisefloor thing gets stuck in my craw more than most (I have to imagine) - but for me... if it ain't dead-quiet, interstellar void quiet, pre big-bang quiet - then it steps all over the the first law of high-fidelity (IMO) "Though shalt not issueth forth self-noise".
OK, I have some food cupboards and a sock-drawer I have to go re-arrange now.
Justin, I'm sure the AG Trios sounded glorious given your praise in print. One thing that always leaves me a bit on edge though wrt horns is their high efficiency. I absolutely can not stand any white noise at all (in between tracks) when listening from the primary sitting position. At >105dB @ 1 wt/m only the most insanely low noisefloor amp has any hope of not having it's dirty floor-laundry trumpeted for all to hear. Sure, at a show when there's usually relatively high ambient room noise, it's a non-issue, but in a dead quiet listening room with super-high efficiency horns that just want to couple-the-hell out of even the most minute diaphram movement out into the listening space - there's no dismissing the hissing. Heck, even the 91dB of my CLXs is borderline, and that's with the crazy-low noisefloor of the ModWrights. This noisefloor thing gets stuck in my craw more than most (I have to imagine) - but for me... if it ain't dead-quiet, interstellar void quiet, pre big-bang quiet - then it steps all over the the first law of high-fidelity (IMO) "Though shalt not issueth forth self-noise".
OK, I have some food cupboards and a sock-drawer I have to go re-arrange now.
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Gordon Gray
Well-known member
Justin,
I wish I were there also. So I could give you some grief in person.
Just telling you what I've heard on numerous occasions, even at our local AG dealer.
Frankly, I'd love to hear a good sounding horn speaker demo given the praise they have received in some circles.
Gordon
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User211
Well-known member
Fair point. But quiet amps exist, Todd. They really do. I used the iPhone DB meter I have and measured 80-85DB on what was played. I heard no noise whatsoever between tracks. The amps are exactly the same ones used to drive the Neepers in the Hong Kong show report I was so enthusiastic about. You might have missed that report, Todd - before your time here. Worth a forum search. I was up close to the speakers, admitedly not ear right down the horn - and heard no hiss at all.
Gordon - have you really heard Trios with basshorns? Be honest, now - they are in a different league to Unos and Duos - which are also good considering their obvious compromises compared to this setup? They work very well with Tron tube amps, at any rate.
Anyway, I'm sure if you were there, you would have looked into my eyes with a kind of WTF? look.
It is not for me to convince you otherwise, chaps. I know what I like and heard. And all reading this must bear in mind that this report will contain quite a bit of subjectivism. To some, what I say may appear absurd. But I can only report what I think and heard!!!
At any rate, I'm back home now - time to sort some media out to post!!!
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Gordon Gray
Well-known member
Justin,
Not with the bass horns.
No one, including myself, is questioning your observations. You have provided great insight to me and others over the years and I trust you will continue to do so in the future.
Maybe my past impressions were based on listening to them without a sufficient, articulate foundation in the mid bass / low bass area. Based on my experience regarding the importance of that area and its contribution to a musical sound system, that would certainly explain it.
And, FWIW, I always try to be honest. Almost contrary to my better interests at times.
Gordon
Not with the bass horns.
No one, including myself, is questioning your observations. You have provided great insight to me and others over the years and I trust you will continue to do so in the future.
Maybe my past impressions were based on listening to them without a sufficient, articulate foundation in the mid bass / low bass area. Based on my experience regarding the importance of that area and its contribution to a musical sound system, that would certainly explain it.
And, FWIW, I always try to be honest. Almost contrary to my better interests at times.
Gordon
User211
Well-known member
I must look up the basshorns - probably to the annoyance of quite a full room, I was perplexed as to their output, so I went right up to them, put my head in them, felt the cabs etc etc. I concluded there must be some fair overlap between the biggest horn on the Trios and the basshorns. Could be wrong, but it seemed that way to me.
Anyway, the music being played wasn't live - at least when I was in there. But the sense of scale was akin to having a live performance in front of you in a smallish venue. As a guitar player, I can attest that guitars sounded like guitars, drums sounded like drums and depth, weight and scale were all very convincing. Vocals were spot on, nothing seemed hyped, emphasised, unreal, or coloured (my usual problem with most horn systems - they can deliver stacks of colouration). TBH - it is the best I have ever heard - anywhere.
Source was an AudioAero La Source - used in more than one room in the show. Nice looking CDP.
Too tired to sort images out tonight - and the key for the image resizing software I just bought has failed to activate the product. Major bummer. More tomoz. Soz.
Anyway, the music being played wasn't live - at least when I was in there. But the sense of scale was akin to having a live performance in front of you in a smallish venue. As a guitar player, I can attest that guitars sounded like guitars, drums sounded like drums and depth, weight and scale were all very convincing. Vocals were spot on, nothing seemed hyped, emphasised, unreal, or coloured (my usual problem with most horn systems - they can deliver stacks of colouration). TBH - it is the best I have ever heard - anywhere.
Source was an AudioAero La Source - used in more than one room in the show. Nice looking CDP.
Too tired to sort images out tonight - and the key for the image resizing software I just bought has failed to activate the product. Major bummer. More tomoz. Soz.
User211
Well-known member
Oh go on then - the new forum s/w has handled a few of the "MLs" but has compressed hugely. Hope they look acceptable.
EDIT: I had to use the scroll bar that appears below to get an OK view. Not bad Tom Any way we can get them shunted to the left? At least they look that way in IE9. EDIT again: turns out I'm just running at a low resolution on the TV so it can be read a few metres away... higher res and no scroll bars - told you I was tired
Oh - I got curious and had a tap on the rear of the bass drivers. They are enclosed i.e. are not operating as dipoles.
EDIT: I had to use the scroll bar that appears below to get an OK view. Not bad Tom
Any way we can get them shunted to the left? At least they look that way in IE9. EDIT again: turns out I'm just running at a low resolution on the TV so it can be read a few metres away... higher res and no scroll bars - told you I was tiredOh - I got curious and had a tap on the rear of the bass drivers. They are enclosed i.e. are not operating as dipoles.
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User211
Well-known member
User211
Well-known member
AudioVecs & AGs done properly... Uno Nanos, Duo Omega and "not sure without looking it up".
I must admit the AudioNecs have got me interested in room correction. Early DSP room correction sounded pretty bad to me. But the AudioVecs, and recent Lyngdorf experience has got me thinking otherwise. I think it has become much better than the early attempts.
The AudioNecs are my choice for second best speaker of the show. Somebody walked in and said the bass was wrong to his friend. I don't think it is - it is just radically different to most cone speakers on exposure. In reality, I think the performance is amazing.
The bass skins look like kevlar close up from the outside. But sort of like a cloth version of kevlar. I wanna know what/how the push/pulling is done.
Anyway, I really am beat now, and the wife wants to watch the telly the computer is attached to. And that's enough on the subject of what I found best at the show. Next up - more horns, actually!
I must admit the AudioNecs have got me interested in room correction. Early DSP room correction sounded pretty bad to me. But the AudioVecs, and recent Lyngdorf experience has got me thinking otherwise. I think it has become much better than the early attempts.
The AudioNecs are my choice for second best speaker of the show. Somebody walked in and said the bass was wrong to his friend. I don't think it is - it is just radically different to most cone speakers on exposure. In reality, I think the performance is amazing.
The bass skins look like kevlar close up from the outside. But sort of like a cloth version of kevlar. I wanna know what/how the push/pulling is done.
Anyway, I really am beat now, and the wife wants to watch the telly the computer is attached to.
And that's enough on the subject of what I found best at the show. Next up - more horns, actually!Attachments
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User211
Well-known member
This gets my vote for the most interesting room. Bantone / Silbatone Acoustics and G.I.P laboratory.
When I walked in I spotted one massive metal mono horn, and two large wooden ones. The metal one was playing and amazingly, though made in 1920, it sounded easy going, open, detailed and really quite impressive.
I then started to look at the other kit in the room. I noticed a 211 based amp, so walked over to have a look. Was I seeing things? That looked like a pair of STC 4242 tubes, in remarkable as new looking condition. These aren't generally available. In fact, they are super rare. I observed in awe of their uniqueness, and wondered whether they really were genuine. They looked like they had been made yesterday. These 211 subsitutes are hard to find. I have never seen a pair on ebay. Not sure of what they would be worth, but quite a lot I suspect.
Anyway, after talking to the rep, it turns out Silbatone was founded by the son of the owner of large Korean company. He was sat in the very room - and needless to say is a multi-millionaire.
The 211 amp, called an A-845, can also run 845s, 284D, 264 and 242C tubes. Price was $80,000 if I remember correctly, but I doubt that will get you the STCs. Cheap I was told - compared to AudioNote. He had a point.
The wooden horns were played a bit later. They sounded pretty good too. Huge soundstage - effortless delivery. Quite how they'd react to some hard hitting rock or electronic music is another question. But with simple mixes, it is not hard to understand how the Chinese and Koreans love this sort of stuff.
When I walked in I spotted one massive metal mono horn, and two large wooden ones. The metal one was playing and amazingly, though made in 1920, it sounded easy going, open, detailed and really quite impressive.
I then started to look at the other kit in the room. I noticed a 211 based amp, so walked over to have a look. Was I seeing things? That looked like a pair of STC 4242 tubes, in remarkable as new looking condition. These aren't generally available. In fact, they are super rare. I observed in awe of their uniqueness, and wondered whether they really were genuine. They looked like they had been made yesterday. These 211 subsitutes are hard to find. I have never seen a pair on ebay. Not sure of what they would be worth, but quite a lot I suspect.
Anyway, after talking to the rep, it turns out Silbatone was founded by the son of the owner of large Korean company. He was sat in the very room - and needless to say is a multi-millionaire.
The 211 amp, called an A-845, can also run 845s, 284D, 264 and 242C tubes. Price was $80,000 if I remember correctly, but I doubt that will get you the STCs. Cheap I was told - compared to AudioNote. He had a point.
The wooden horns were played a bit later. They sounded pretty good too. Huge soundstage - effortless delivery. Quite how they'd react to some hard hitting rock or electronic music is another question. But with simple mixes, it is not hard to understand how the Chinese and Koreans love this sort of stuff.
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User211
Well-known member
User211
Well-known member
User211
Well-known member
He was probably the guy I was talking to - big chap - very friendly.
If you like tubes and DIY all issues of Sound Practices can be bought from him on ebay for cca 20 EUR (on a CD).
Worthy of reading.
