High End Woes

[waynwass]

Tried the receiver in direct and in stereo tonight ...no difference.....Sound is wonderful until you turn it up.
Maybe Gordon is right ...speakers are not meant to rock at concert volume.
I will audition some other speakers this weekend and let you all know the results.

[Satch]

You're kidding, right?

You can't rock Vantages or any other panels to concert levels with 100 watts. Nothing wrong with the speakers, but you're gonna blow up your amp.

Satch

[Spike]

What is the sound pressure level you're listening at to consider "loud"? Different people interpret "loud" differently. For example, 95db is plenty loud for me, but maybe barely loud enough for some others. Please specify room dimensions, how far away the speakers are from your listening position, the decibel reading at your listening position to give us more hints as to what might be the problem. From the surface, it looks like you're overdriving your Rotel amplifier. One way to take the Rotel out of the equation is to let the receiver drive the Vantages (in stereo mode) and see whether you're coming close to the same sound level.

Spike

[churchill]

Your receivers amplifier section is clipping, you might want to try an external power amp if your receiver has pre-outs.

[Jimna]

Yes try another amp, I bet thats the problem.

"Sound is wonderful until you turn it up" <<that sounds like amp distortion to me.

[waynwass]

I tried to isolate the problem by going to direct and to stereo modes.
Doesn't seem to make any difference.
I am going to the Martin Logan dealer with the same disk and will listen to it there. I will be able to tell if his system sounds the same.

[TomDac]

100 W is not enough. Those speakers can rock and WILL rock when driven with a beefier amp.

Many of us have been in your situation. It's definitely the amp. Now comes the fun part: shopping for a new amp! YAY! And when you get one, you will be AMAZED as what you were missing!

[tsv_1]

100 W is not enough. Those speakers can rock and WILL rock when driven with a beefier amp.

Many of us have been in your situation. It's definitely the amp. Now comes the fun part: shopping for a new amp! YAY! And when you get one, you will be AMAZED as what you were missing!

Yep... it's all about the watts. Not sure what your budget is, but there are some very affordable power-amps out there. Certainly a slew of used on Audiogo - or even new, like this one from Emotiva.

Good luck with the process!

[autoformer]

Your symptoms sound exactly like mine. I started a thread on this and a number of forum members have been kindly trying to help. See here:
http://www.martinloganowners.com/for...ad.php?t=11897

Bottom line seems to be you need acoustic treatment in your room.

I also switched my Summits to the 2 Ohm taps on my amp and that helped make the vocals a bit less intense.

[audvidmaster]

You don't mention using a line conditioner/surge suppressor. If you are using one, you should also try plugging your two power sources, one at a time, directly into the wall outlet instead of a conditioner. They often act as a choke to the amps needed by an electrostatic speaker when driven loudly. That's the only thing I can think of that hasn't already been mentioned by the excellent prior replies.

[JonFo]

While the amp does seem a little low on power (for ESLs), it is most probably a problem with modal ringing in the room.

When you have speaker radiating areas measured in square feet, it's pretty easy to engage significant modal ringing at mid to high frequencies in 'normal' untreated rooms.

Please tell us more about the physical setup. a picture would be very helpful as well.

I figure about half of all equipment swaps people do on this board are essentially trying to mitigate a room interface challenge. Fix the room first.

[JonFo]

I know when I bought the speakers, the dealer said they were not meant for rock and roll...and couldn;t stand loud volume...but Celine and Phil Collins at a failry loud volume should not be causing me this grief....I guess I will get a troubleshooter out to have a look and there may be some cheap martin logans for sale as this is not working the way it is.

Trust me, ML's will rock out. I have a setup that delivers 105dB SPL of absolutely clean reproduction across the spectrum.

The panels will play at levels that will make your ears bleed if given the right power. So no, I don't buy the 'ML's don't rock' line.

They do have a major issue with dipole cancellation in the mid-bass you need to mitigate with room treatments and placement.

The real problem is they can energize the room at mid and high frequencies way better than other speakers and therefore expose room modes that can indeed make high-volume listening seem 'harsh'.

Here's an analogy:

A Ferrari can drive really fast and handle curves really well, but if driven on a very bumpy road, you can't go as fast or take curves as well. The ride is uncomfortable and your 'sustainable' top speed a lot lower than the car is capable of.

Is the problem the Ferrari or the road it's being driven on?

[waynwass]

I hooked up a Bel Canto ref1000 to the Vantages and...mystery solved...There is no way that the 100 wat per channel Rotel could drive the Vantages. When watching music DVD's I turned off the stage center and put the unit in stereo mode...sound is now fine. Question now is wheter the Stage would benefit from more power also?

[khenegar]

go up to your stage and listen closely to it and see if it is sounding distorted. I noticed this with my system and it was the stage, it is at martin Logan now for repair to see what might be causing it to distort. good luck