Amp choice for CLS IIz

I'm looking at a pair of Martin Logan CLS IIZ's which are very interesting. I'm an old hand with Quad ESLs, and latterly have been using Tannoy Monitor Golds.

Anyway I had been looking at going back to Quads but have the chance of a swop. Just wondering on the suitability of my VAC PA60C monoblocks (PP monoblocks two KT88 tubes each channel, 30w triode which is perfect for Quads and Tannoys, 70w pentode). Will this be enough to do justice to the CLS's?

My listening is 99% small scale classical (piano/harpsichord, lieder, chamber music, cantatas, with occasional mid-scale orchestral and some organ music).

Hi,

While I can't comment on amp compatibility, having zero experience with the CLS IIz (or any other CLS for that matter), I can welcome you to the club and wish you the best with your potential ML purchase.

Cheers

Thanks! Interesting site.

Room is reasonably large by UK standards, around 6m x 7m (around 19ft x 22ft), carpeted.

While I'll let the CLS experts chime in ( I've only listened to them at various times and at various locations) my gut tells me that 'ideally' one would want a more robust amp package. With that being said we used to have a member of the forum that drove his CLS's with a Mac 275 if memory serves me right.

Generally speaking you will find a group that swears by SS amplification for electrostaics and another faction (myself included) that beleives if done right the mystical mid-range magic of tubes more than makes up for the potential high freq shortcomings (especially if your closing in on 60 like me and 'ya can't hear above 15khz anyways .....LOL !)

Your listening tastes along with the levels that you listen may yield great results, so given the fact that you like your amps.......and what's not to like about the CLS's, I say give it a whirl !!

montesquieu said:

I'm looking at a pair of Martin Logan CLS IIZ's which are very interesting. I'm an old hand with Quad ESLs, and latterly have been using Tannoy Monitor Golds.

Anyway I had been looking at going back to Quads but have the chance of a swop. Just wondering on the suitability of my VAC PA60C monoblocks (PP monoblocks two KT88 tubes each channel, 30w triode which is perfect for Quads and Tannoys, 70w pentode). Will this be enough to do justice to the CLS's?

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I'm not familiar with the amp that you're running, so can't comment on the usefulness.

I've tried two different Pass Labs amps with my CLS IIz's. The first was the X250, a class A/B amp. This amp was great with the IIz's and had plenty of current to drive them.

I'm currently running the XA60.5's class A monoblocks. These amps have taken the IIz's sound to another level. These a great amps and also have plenty of current to drive the IIz's.

Good luck with the purchase!

Amplifier selection with the CLS is purely devised on the volume you listen to and the room size. Tubes can be used but I have heard and had several setups and find that the well set up CLS is based more on the room than the amp. Now dont get me wrong you need a good HIGH current amp to drive them . I USE KRELL and many cringe until they have heard it. I find GARBAGE up stream = Garbage down stream. Your ears will tell that. I have had the exact CLS system in one room with the same set up sound HORRID in another room. Yet change the amp and its a whole different story. Tubes are not my cup of tea. However I have heard many and liked them. I just like the slam and control of SS better . Maybe ears differ !

I completely agree with CAP...room compatibility is a HUGE factor!

I'd try the combo out to see if it delivers the music your ears like.:music:
(so many variables)
I'd love to be able to compare the two sets of speakers together with the same amp (or a few different amps if you can get some friends to bring along some ringers)
Keen to hear which way you choose! Best of luck!

I used to run my CLS-es with KRELL for a long time. But before getting my Summits, I bi-amped my IIz using 2 Tannoy TA600. This was a very big improvement and I can say bi-amping was the utlimate step forward getting everything out of my CLS.

The Tannoy TA600 is very affordable, ultra stable and altough it is PA gear, it matches very well to the demands of a HiFi enthusiast. Sounds warm, almost like a tube and presents a stage with enourmous dimensions. regettably its is really ugly ... but sound is the point, eh?

You can bi-amp a IIz by simply removing the wire jumpers at the backside of the Crossover Board (close to the speaker wires connection points). A second set of pads is already present and you may solder another set of speaker wire connections here. Btw: I removed the binding posts and attached my biwiring cables directly here. A well known tweak.

Br
Johann

Ideally when it comes to the CLS IIz due to their slight bass/lower midrange thinness you need to steer clear of lean bass sounding amps. They are extremely current hungry speakers so I'm not sure if 30 watts is enough to drive them, I think you may need a minimum of 100 watts to drive them to satisfactory levels.

Dan Osib said:

They are extremely current hungry speakers so I'm not sure if 30 watts is enough to drive them, I think you may need a minimum of 100 watts to drive them to satisfactory levels.

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I fully agree with that. Both Tannoy TA600 delivered 600W per channel and I had not the feeling of "overpowering" the IIz.

Although, I once auditioned to a IIz setup bi-amped with 2 Kondo Onkaku (!!!) 211 Triodes. Very impressive (even in regard to purchase price), but their performance was not really comparable with potent solid state amps, especially in terms of bass response.

GDSA said:

I completely agree with CAP...room compatibility is a HUGE factor!

I'd try the combo out to see if it delivers the music your ears like.:music:
(so many variables)
I'd love to be able to compare the two sets of speakers together with the same amp (or a few different amps if you can get some friends to bring along some ringers)
Keen to hear which way you choose! Best of luck!

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I agree ...the room and positioning and repositioning of your speaker is the largest variable in the sound of these speakers. I use my CLSz2 with a Bryston and love it but moving the speaker 2 inches this way or that changed the sound in significant ways...it was a much larger difference than a couple amps and DACs I audtioned!

I use the Krell 350-mcx with hi fi tuning fuses. Dedicated circuits for each monoblock. That made a big difference in removing the thinness of the panels. The speakers use Sosna Emotion power cords and Valhalla speaker wires to keep that fast panel blazing fast. Panels are shunted at 50Hz and the subs meet them at 50.

Piano decay and female vocals are incredible with the clsIIz. So much air.

Best amp for the ML clsiiz hands down Macintosh ,I use 501 mono blocks !! They bring those speakers to life !!

Hola. I drove mines with CJ power amp... the model was the Premier Four. At that time, it was a beast! Used the EL-34s. Also had the Mark Levinson mono blocks model 2. I ended liking more tube gear with my CLS, and also I had all the CLS models. Still love their sound, paired with Saterberg subs at that time. If your room is small, with 50watts/channel you are OK. playing piano music or chamber music. Its much better to use subs along with them...cutting the crossover circa 65Hz was my best result with the gear that I had.

Just bought, today that is, Anthem MCA 225 power amplifier to drive CLS 1.

Very happy with the result.

fattner said:

Best amp for the ML clsiiz hands down Macintosh ,I use 501 mono blocks !! . . . .

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Why do you believe it is the "best amp"?

To which other amplifiers have you compared the 501 on ML speakers?

Yes I have tried the nad 375 integrated amp/pre amp / wired 4 sound ice amp 250 wtt/ch and jolida 200wtt/ch mono block tube amps ,,but let us not forget Mac and ML always teams up during audio shows (I.e. THE SHOW 2014/15 and probably this yr ) Mac stuff is as magical and ML And combined together my clsiiz sound so open and real to life hands down !! Both set a high standard in audio reproduction and is a marriage made in heaven !!