1 Amp to Monoblocks-Differences??

Gordon Gray said:

PS: Based on your comment that the CJ Premier 350 will blow out 99% of the monoblocks out there - tube or SS, I assume that you've auditioned 99% of the monoblocks out there, tube or SS. Correct?

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Actually, it is probably close to the truth. Other than folks who work for magazines, I, as a hobbyist, have heard as much gear out there as any other audiophile. When I travel, I seek out dealers who have gear I want to hear. And unlike the magazine writers, I don't play politics. I state things as I hear them. My goals is to find the best sound that suits my tastes. And then I share my opinions and experiences with others who may find a bit of bliss as they take a break from life by listening to music.

I know that you consider your self the keeper of this site. But be careful, my friend. Don't take yourself or others' comments so seriously. Your posts reek of authoritarianism and conformity. This site has been very quiet the last few months. Sure it is summer and ML product pipeline has been slow. But your posts do not make this place a good environment to hang out at.

Bernard said:

What's happening here? I thought you were now a tube guy!

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I guess I am! I don't think of it this way, though. Electrostats need a lot of power to satisfy my tastes. The VTLs are ORGASMIC every time you listen to them. They don't sound like tubes or solid state. They sound like real music. But if one cannot have the VTLs, the Premier 350 is as good as it gets.

And, of course, with monster tube amps, one needs redundancy if a tube goes out or a fuse blows.

David Matz said:

I guess I am! I don't think of it this way, though. Electrostats need a lot of power to satisfy my tastes. The VTLs are ORGASMIC every time you listen to them. They don't sound like tubes or solid state. They sound like real music. But if one cannot have the VTLs, the Premier 350 is as good as it gets.

And, of course, with monster tube amps, one needs redundancy if a tube goes out or a fuse blows.

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In your opinion are the VTLs better than the ARC 610Ts?

Bernard said:

In your opinion are the VTLs better than the ARC 610Ts?

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I think they are in the same class. In fact I would not be surprised if the 610T's were even more resolving than my MB 750s, since they are a newer design by at least 10 years. Next time I have a few spare hours when I am in Philly, I will hear the big ARCs at Overture (although unfortunately I will not be able to haul the VTLs for an a/b).

However, one way that VTL is better is reliability. This is not a sick internet rumor, but there are several guys who have their whole systems taken out by ARC 610Ts and 600s - 3 or 4 times! They have switched to VTL. 750s are as reliable as you can get. The new VTL Siegfried has been designed to minimize user involvement.

In my case specifically, I picked them at a fire-sale price. If I need to send the heavy beasts to CA for any reason, I still would have gotten a very good deal.

Regarding your last post, I do not consider myself "keeper of the site" or whatever else you may think of me.

You made a statement about the CJ being better than 99% of the mono amps out there and I was merely questioning the validity of the statement.

Sorry if you took it the wrong way.

GG

The CJ 350 is a fantastic amp, as are CJ's tube amps. I love my Premier 140. But to say it is better than or worse than so many other amps out there is a completely subjective statement. There are an amazing number of great amps out there. Just go to an audio show like RMAF and you can see and hear more really great amps, many by smaller manufacturers, than you could have imagined existed. And each will have different sound characteristics and different synergies, depending on which pre and speakers they are mated with. Long story short, it is hard to make blanket statements like that in audio. But your ultimate point that the CJ 350 is an incredible amp that is hard to beat, is true, at least from my perspective.

I think Gordon probably takes issue with your blanket statement, at least in part, because he has a Pass Labs X-250.5, and these amps easily rival the CJ (I personally have an X-350.5, and wouldn't trade it for the CJ -- It drives my Ascents to perfection).

As for the mono vs. single amp debate, I don't think it is that big of an issue. I think there are some positives that can be gained from separating the signal and having a separate power supply for each channel, but ultimately the build quality of the amp is much more important than whether it is stereo or monobloc. I have Sanders monoblocs and they are great. But I wouldn't say they are better than my X-350.5 or my CJ Premier 140 -- just different. They have tons of power on reserve for demanding transients, and they are as neutral-sounding an amp as you can get, with no discernible coloration, but the other two amps have a more liquid and slightly warmer sound that mates very well with ML speakers.

And as far as impressing people goes . . . there is nothing like eight 6550 tubes lit up or a 150 lb. stainless steel monolith with a big blue power gauge on the front for impressing people. By comparison, my measly little Sanders monoblocs are pretty unobtrusive in my rack.

Thanks Rich,

You are correct. I do take exception with "blanket statements".

I think most serious hobbyists would agree that there is no "universal" best since so much has to do with system synergy, room acoustics, etc.

Having said that, I have no issue with someone saying that there is a "subjective" best, which goes to the heart and soul of our hobby.

I do apologize to David if he took my question the wrong way.

Gordon

PS: Regarding David's really BIG LETTERS Post No. 21 accusing me of authoritarianism and conformity, I have no further comment other than to question why one cannot question the validity of what is obviously an indefensible generalization and the basis thereof.

It would be similar to saying all digital sucks or the contrary, all analogue sucks. The only difference is that this thread involves mono versus stereo amplifiers. I strongly suspect that if one started a thread regarding digital versus analogue with the same generalizations you have made about the CJ amp, one should expect push back. And frankly, I don't think that is being authoritarian or suggesting that all conform to the digital OR analogue sound quality perspective.

David Matz said:

When I travel, I seek out dealers who have gear I want to hear.

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This is great but how in the world can you compare something that you heard at a retailer (completely different room and system) VS. what you have at home? I'm sorry but I find this impossible.

David Matz said:

But your posts do not make this place a good environment to hang out at.[/COLOR][/SIZE]

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Are you serious? Gordon to me is one of the most respected and respectful on THIS forum. The basis of his posts IMO are his experience and typically on point.

Oh and if you didn't know, you can always go here as they now have a Planar Circle.
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?board=177.0

jtwrace said:

This is great but how in the world can you compare something that you heard at a retailer (completely different room and system) VS. what you have at home? I'm sorry but I find this impossible.

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A I mentioned above, I have heard enough stuff. I know what I like and don't like. I have heard a lot of amps in my system. I have heard many electrostat systems. I don't need to bring every piece home. If there is something I find worthy of audition, I do make sure I hear it in my system.

Likewise, when I go to a car show to select a car, I don't need to drive every car there, on every road, to find a car that meets my tastes, preferences, and objectives. I don't need to drive the Camaro to know that I prefer the M3 or the 911.

I trust my tastes, my listening skills, and my ability to make decisions. If you have a different approach that works for you, God bless you.

Gordon Gray said:

Thanks Rich,

You are correct. I do take exception with "blanket statements".

I think most serious hobbyists would agree that there is no "universal" best since so much has to do with system synergy, room acoustics, etc.

Having said that, I have no issue with someone saying that there is a "subjective" best, which goes to the heart and soul of our hobby.

I do apologize to David if he took my question the wrong way.

Gordon

PS: Regarding David's really BIG LETTERS Post No. 21 accusing me of authoritarianism and conformity, I have no further comment other than to question why one cannot question the validity of what is obviously an indefensible generalization and the basis thereof.

It would be similar to saying all digital sucks or the contrary, all analogue sucks. The only difference is that this thread involves mono versus stereo amplifiers. I strongly suspect that if one started a thread regarding digital versus analogue with the same generalizations you have made about the CJ amp, one should expect push back. And frankly, I don't think that is being authoritarian or suggesting that all conform to the digital OR analogue sound quality perspective.

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Gordon, no worries, man. This hobby is primarily about opinions. It's kind of redundant to say "IMO" in your posts. None of this comes etched in stone from the Almighty. Additionally, even if there is consensus that something is better than something else, such as summit x vs. summit, it doesn't always make economic sense to upgrade.

I am making it to 3 live shows this weekend, and jammed my system late into the night. You got a great system. Enjoy it. Life is short.

MOON said:

I would like to hear from members that went from one amp driving their logans that went to a monoblock setup. What specific differences in sound did you notice? Also, what was the wattage increase involved?

Thanks, Greg

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Greg, I went from a 350 watt 2 channel amp to the 500 watt mono's. The biggest gain for me was the separation of the 2 channels. The left and right were more defined, more definition from top to bottom and a rock solid center.

I was also able to drive the 2 channel amp into PowerGuard (soft clip protection) quite easily while the mono's take an unbearable volume level to hit PG. I've only hit PG once with the mono's and will probably never go there again, perhaps if my room was larger I could, Nah, it was terrible loud, clear and concise but entirely way too loud for these ears.

As a personal note, I was very happy with the two channel and could have lived with it had I not been able to swing the mono's. There was quite a price hit going to the mono's which to me was worth it. Was the definition worth the cost? To me it was but it may not be for some. It was a lot of money for that extra bit of definition. I wanted a fully balanced, mono driven system which I have and enjoy it every day.

Gordon