clean diaphram on Martin Logan Aeon?

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sgnam

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I'm sorry but I couldn't find any info regarding this on the Aeon model.
I have bought a pair of used Aeons and unfortunately they seem to have been placed in a (Cigarette) smoked environment. Except for that they smell bad also the polyester film diaphragm seems to have some small black moisty dust particles on it. I also notice that this affect the sound a little bit in the upper end. I have done some measurements and they are a bit dull in the 5kHz-10kHz area (a dip about 5dB depeding on angle). Above/below that frequencies they seem to be fine. I also notice that the frequencies are uneven on the panel , I'm not sure if this is the way it should be? There is more treble on top of the speaker and more midrange below. I was under the impresseion that the freq between 450-20000 should be even from the whole panel?

My question is if there is anything I can try to do to correct this. Is there anyway to clean the panel? I have tried with a vacuum cleaner but it doesn't seem to help. I used a small ear top out of cotton and gently touched the diaphraghm and it seemed to remove the dust but is there any risk with this, can I destroy the speaker?

Can I use some kind of cleanser or water?

There are about 10.000 holes in one pair of speaker so it also is a bit time consuming butI'm willy to do the work if I get better sound. If possible I want to remove the front so it's easier to dlean the diaphragm, is this possible or should I prevent touching the diaphragm at all, will it be damaged if I touch it ie as above with the small cotton sticks?

If there is no way I can clean this, what can I do, can I buy a new diaprghm and replace it myself or do I need to go to a service center (any idea about the cost for such a change on a pair of Aeons?)

I am very thankful for any help you can give me. And except for the dull treable they sound fantastic. I have an imaging in my room like never before. If I can only get back the high end of the speaker again I'm satisfied.
 
Don't put liquid directly on the stats unless washing! It appears your stats need either washing or replacement. You can try getting a microfiber cloth and slightly dampen it with windex and wipe the stats.

Also while playing a test tone, get close to each speaker (in sequence). Starting at one end (top to bottom) slowly move towards the other while listening closely. If the sound drops at any point, you may well need to replace the stat, particularly if the drop in sound is in only one speaker.

Look in the tweaks section and find the directions concerning washing. Before you do that call ML.
 
All older MLs I've seen (incl my SL3's) have the sooty looking spots on the diaphragm in the center of each stator hole, so it's not only from smoking, and I would say it's 'normal.' I'd like to know what it is though. Perhaps it's something in the film coating breaking down and migrating to the hole centers or just air pollution?
I haven't tried showering mine, but I suppose I will one day, although I don't expect the spots to just rinse off.

Also, on every ML that has sloping sides I've noticed that there is more apparent midrange as you move down the panel, but I think that's just the effect from rear cancellation due to the longer path front to rear.

Lastly I've never seen ESLs measure especially well with test equipment. What counts is if they sound good from the listening position (and you should play with the toe and rake). If you're not used to ESLs the treble can sound dull because it's so undistorted, but play a good recording with real highs, and I think you'll discover it's actually there when the recording permits.
 
Mine too

I have 10 year old Aerius i's and I have the central dark spots in the holes too. Just lightly at the tweeter level. I actually cleaned them out one by one with a Q-tip and water, but it dimpled in the mylar. No damage, but looked funny so I quit. It was also very time consuming. I just live with it and dont notice any sound deterioration. -Bob.
 
You can actually take the stator panels off , take them in the shower with you and clean them...

Honey? Who is that in the shower with you? We really need to talk!
 
Those spots you are talking about, is it these I have on the photo here, in the middle of every puncture ? I would also say thats normal, they have always been there...

I just measured my Aeon I today, not in a laboratory way, but I held the RadioShack microphone tip onto the stat on both speakers about 1/3 up from the bottom. Unfortunately I adjusted the volume a bit before I measured the right speaker, but you get the idea...its almost identical.
I added the recommended RadioShack corrections to my measurements, and even though the RadioShack cannot be trusted 100% I get a feeling that something is not quite right.
I had the speakers since 2006.
The speakers have not been exposed to smoke, and frankly, hardly been used....
Here are my measurements:
Frequency Left: Right:
3,15 76,5 77,5
4 77 77
5 78,3 78,3
6.3 78 79
8 73 73
10 68,4 70,4
12.5 71,2 73,2
16 72,5 74,5

There seem to a consistent drop on the left speaker above 8khz, and overall around a 4 db drop from 4khz to 12.5 khz.

Can the washing explanation also be used for the Aeon, I dont see any wires from the stator when I look from beneath and up, I only see wires going to the LED light...where are the wires going to the panel?

There were a thread about some protection plastic sleeves you could get to put on the panels when not in use, any idea where I can get these?

Comments welcome....

EDIT: I bought these as demo models in may 2006, today I checked the serial numbers, and was astonished to discover that the speakers are from february 2003! So, what do I do?
 

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On the Aeon I, if you stand above the panel, looking down on the back side of the LED light, you will see 3 screws holding a hatch in the enclosure, what is in there??
 
Hi,
Thanks for all your answers :bowdown:

Yes, the holes in the stators are almost all dirty and it's not even. In the edges and on top it is almost black while it seems to be almost ok in the middle. The fact that they smell of cigarette smoke make me believe that cigarettes at least have a big part of this. I have been in contact with Martin Logan and they refer to the shower wash method but my guees is that this will not help,

I have tried with a Q-tip and plain water and it seems to work ok but there are a lot of holes to clean (40.000 in total) and I'm not sure if it will give better sound.

I have played around with the placement a lot and finally found a placement that almost gave a flat frequency response in the very small sweetspot but moving the head or the microphone just a couple of cm ruins everything.

I have heard that the sweetspot is small with electrostats but I think this is too small. In all other positions it sounds a little dull so my guess that the overall throughput from the panels in the higher frequencies is not as loud as it should be.


Let me explain. A Sing/song writer recording with guitar and voices in many cases with these speakers sounds really amazing. Espacially the imaging where the musicians is there with me in my living room (like never before heard of with other speakers in my room). But as soon as the music is more complex and involve more drums etc I notice that the higher frequncies sound a little dull and also that if I play at sound levels about 95dB or so especially the treble seems distorted.


If I measure the two speakers they seems to be similar in frequency response but I notice that they differs a lot depending on listening height. Since they both have been placed in the same environment before so I can't say if this is the way they should sound or not. It would be great to compare one of these spekars with one that sounds like new.

I'm thinking of buying new panels but the cost over here is almost the same as I payed for the complete speakers so it's not that tempting. On the other hand, it might be the only way to know for sure.

The worst thing would be to buy new panels and notice that they sound exactly the same and this is the wat they should sound and that the dirt had no or very little effect on the sound quality.

As I said, with some music they really sound great and I can get an almost flat frequency response in the small sweetspot if I toe the speakers in so that the right speaker is directed just to the left of me in the listening position. The rrom is 3.5meters wide and 10meters long. I'm playing on the shortside with the the speakers 2.4meters apart and 92cm in front of the front wall and 48cms from the sidewall. Listening position 330cm from the front wall. I have tried and measured a lot of placements and found that these gave me the best response.


The fact that some music sounds more distorted compared to other speakers + that they sound a little dull make me believe that something isn't like it should be.

Is there anyone that has removed the front stator and cleaned the whole diaphragm with cottonpads and water instead of using the Q-tip method?

Thanks a lot for all input you can give, I'm very thankful!
 
You simply must order new panels.....
If you wash them you need kitchen detergent to get the "smoke gravy" off, and even then its difficult because you cannot get to the mylar itself to clean properly with a cloth etc...
Remember, martin Logan speakers gives you the truth and nothing but the truth (we would like to think) and that means that some recordings sound like crap, and others sound incredible. You should set up your system so your favourite music sounds good, then forget it. If you hear bad music its not the speakers fault.
I recommend you try your long wall also, if you can, the speaker interact with the room, and sometimes you hit jackpot with another location.
Also, tilt the speakers forward so that the wooden railing is exactly vertical, this means the rear spikes will be almost at its maximum extension, and the front at its minimum.
 
Those spots you are talking about, is it these I have on the photo here, in the middle of every puncture ? I would also say thats normal, they have always been there...

They weren't there when new....

I bought these as demo models in may 2006, today I checked the serial numbers, and was astonished to discover that the speakers are from february 2003! So, what do I do?

Have your hearing checked, and place the hotter speaker on the side of your weaker ear.
 
Remember, martin Logan speakers gives you the truth and nothing but the truth (we would like to think) and that means that some recordings sound like crap, and others sound incredible. You should set up your system so your favourite music sounds good, then forget it. If you hear bad music its not the speakers fault.

I tend to agree (and they're also very revealing of equipment character).

I recommend you try your long wall also, if you can, the speaker interact with the room, and sometimes you hit jackpot with another location.
Also, tilt the speakers forward so that the wooden railing is exactly vertical, this means the rear spikes will be almost at its maximum extension, and the front at its minimum.
Certainly you should try the extremes of placement and tilt, at least just to have the experience of hearing what happens.

Lycka till!
 
Your panels very likely may need replacing but here are a few things to consider regarding the troubleshooting.

1. Did you test using a Pink Noise source? It's a full spectrum signal and best to use when testing speaker output.

2. Did you measure the voltage coming out of the amps to make sure the imbalance isn't due to a source component? Could be a weak tube if using a tube amp.

3. The height and distance of the mic to the speaker must be exactly the same. Not positive about this but I think the panels play higher frequencies near the top and lower near the bottom. The use of Pink Noise would minimize this somewhat.

4. The microphone could possibly be picking up peaks at certain frequencies caused be room acoustics.

5. Placing the hotter speaker on the side of your weaker ear might work for you.

6. Rolling off of the higher frequencies can be caused be the amp not being strong enough for the speakers. What are you using for an amp.
 
The weaker speaker was actually placed on the weaker ears side, by coincidence, but yes, brilliant idea, didnt even think of that.
I used a Radio Shack Digital measuring microphone, held it against the panel halfway up the panel, in the middle.
The measurements were then corrected according to the corrections for Radio Shack found on the internet.
The amplifier is an integrated Bryston B100 DA, and the source was Stereophile test cd 3, with the sweep from 2.5khz-16.0khz.
I will do some more measuring later, but as ofnow, comparing 4khz and 10khz, one speaker is 8,6 db down, and the other 6,4 down at 10khz.
I will be moving soon, after that I will take the panels off and wash them, that might help...
 
After some consideration I chose to be lazy (and smart I guess) and ordered new panels. Hopefully I will have them within soon and I will compare the new ones with the old. I can measure with both pink noise,FFT and so on. I really hope that the new panels will sound better in the highs. :)

No matter how it goes I will at least get rid of the black spots and the cigarette smoke smell. ;)

I am aware that both the speaker placement as well as the mic placement is cruscial when it comes to measuring and I found great difference but almost equal between the speaker depending on how I measured.

In total all my measurings straight in front of the speakers gave me a 10dB drop or more in the higher frequencies. Also the soft and detailed highs which I thought I would get from these spelaers weren't there. The only way to get a reasonable flat frequency response was to angle the right speaker that much that it was on the left side on my head. And even though I needed to gain about 3-4dB to get a flat response in the sweet spot and of course an even lower output in the highs in every other position in the room.


As I said. I will first change only one of the panels, do some measuring and listen to the difference (hopefully) between the two speakers.

My guess is that the black moisy dust must have some influence on the sound. At least it will add extra weight to the diaphragm and I belive that small changes might have big impact on the overall sound.

Even if I would select to clean the panels by hand with a Q-ip I would still always wonder how they would sound with new panels so I think I made the right choise. At least now I will know if the smoke had an impact or not and of course I will report the result to you guys.
 
That depends of course on the speaker and country. I'm also not sure if it's ok to write it here,

I thought my speakers were a catch when I first bought them but now I have to pay almost the same money to get new stators and hope this will help. I had the choice to clean the diaphragm myself but it would take up a lot of my free time and eventually I think that after some time I would be to curius to find out how new panels would sound like so I think it's worth it. I got the package today and want to install them tomorrow. Cross your fingers for an improvement in sound.


At least I have learned something buy this and hopefully the spekaers now will sound magic at home. If they do it's still a low price to get exceptional imaging and soundstage in my living room.

In the weekend I measure the speakers with the old stators and took screenshots for you guys that I want to publish here. What I can say before hand is that the left speaker dipped about 12dB in its highs measuring right in front of the speaker on different heights while the right one measured a little bit better but still not good enough according to me.

There is a remarkable difference in frequency response depending on the height of the microphone. The region between 500-2kHz on the other hand was really flat which may explain why voices sounds really natural and present.

My hope is that the new stators will perform a lot better also in the highs.
 
Hej sgnam!

What is the year of manufacture (or serial number) of your Aeons?

If you were going to be scientific about it, you might disconnect and clean the wires and contacts of your original panels and then re-test them (and also re-test them on the other side's electronics to be sure the problem follows the panel). Whenever someone says they hear a difference from showering their panels I wonder if the difference came from just having made a clean connection again upon reconnecting them (and not actually from the showering).
 

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