Why does my left Summit sound weak?

Hi guys, I wanted to ask you guys if you ever heard of the each of the Summits sounding noticeably different. I thought it was my settings on my Emotiva UMC-1 pre-amp, so I did a factory reset. Then I thought it was my component (Samsung Blu-ray) so I tried using my PlayStation3 and XM player and it still sounded the same. So I tried using different media types DVD, CD, MP3, etc and still had no luck. I unplugged my L & R main cords and switched them thinking there was a bad connection or I accidentally bi-wired the positive & negatives incorrectly. Then I flipped the unbalanced interconnects too and same result. These summits are only a couple years old and I don't know what to do. Is there such thing as blowing the panels? My right Summit's panel sounds great but my left panel has less sound with voices by a mile. I also switched my wires to silver cables but that shouldn't make a difference, right? I also never have vacuum dusted either of them. Could that make any difference? Oh and of course if you're wondering, I did try using different sound modes on my preamp LOL. I'm so frustrated and close to just ordering some brand new panels but I wanted to get your professional recommendations first.


Thanks a bunch to anyone who responds,

Steven

I think you may have answered the question yourself. Being that the manufacturer recommends vacuuming the panels, and you never have, I'd definitely start there.

Also try switching back to your old wires to see if that changes anything. I doubt it since you say you've switched the wires (did you switch them at amp end or speaker end?). If you haven't switched them at the speaker end, try that, and also try the old wires if you still have them. Plenty of things you can do at this point to narrow it down before getting overly worried.

Just always remember: KISS

Keep
It
Simple,
Stupid

The other thing to try is to actually swap the left and right speakers. Move them to the exact same positions and re-test.

This will eliminate any position-dependent differences.

If the loss of output follows the unit, then you have a problem in that unit.

Contact Martin Logan customer service and get them to help you troubleshoot the issue. You could have a bad connection between your panel and your crossover, or something similar. ML has great customer service and can help you figure it out.

Rich said:

Contact Martin Logan customer service and get them to help you troubleshoot the issue. You could have a bad connection between your panel and your crossover, or something similar. ML has great customer service and can help you figure it out.

Click to expand...

What Rich says. They should still be under warranty if they are only a couple of years old.

Hello,
One of my Vantages measures lower than the other one. Do you have an SPL Meter? If so, run test tones and see if it does measure lower.

In my case, one Vantage does measure about 1.5-2 db's lower. I have a replacement set of Panels that I have been meaning to put in. Just have not gotten around to it.
Cheers,
JJ

Quick note, be sure to unplug your Speakers from wall and let them de-enrgize before vacuuming them.

They need to sit at least over night if not 24 hours to do the vacuuming correctly.

There are lots of threads here with other cleaning tips that I recommend.....as Tom always says 'The Search' is your friend.

I know this might sound stupid, but is there any chance your speaker came unplugged? I did this once and it drove me crazy, only to find out that I had bumped the AC cord out of the speaker.

Embarrassing, but true.

I would suggest you also check to make sure BOTH the down and front firing woofers are actually working. Play some heavy bass tracks, and FEEL the down woofer, and shine a light on the front firing one. You can also just drive the stat panels alone (disconnect the bass/panel jumper) and compare the sound, to confirm the problem lies with the panel itself.

If you happen to have a frequency response analyzer (even just a radio shack meter) you could perform separate frequency response measurements with each speaker, to identify WHERE the falloff occurs, and HOW MUCH. That might help ML service dept troubleshoot the problem.

When I first got my Summits, the LEFT downfiring woofer was not working (turned out to be just a loose connector), but it created a major "mismatch" in tonality compared to the other.

I'm sure the good folks at ML will work with you to rectify the problem, whatever it is.

Still sounds horrible! ML sent parts...

Thanks for all who replied, I'm very grateful. Well I called Martin Logan last week they told me to leave them unplugged for a full 24hrs and carefully vacuum them. So I did and tried out the system again and played various types of music. The speakers still delivered the same distorted annoying sound, so I called up ML again. They said I would have to pay for the speakers to be shipped to Kansas. I asked her to research on other factors that could maybe cause these problems. She said it could simply be defective power supply circuit boards. She sent two last week and they just arrived today! I'm planning on installing the new ones asap.


Wish me luck,

Steven

Martin Logan is at fault? WTF??

Umm, OMG I think this fixed the problem. I know how my speakers sounded when I heard the problems. I cannot hear an audible difference between the speakers anymore after the installation. Once I went through the 12-page installation manual, on the first Summit the second was a breeze! Both the Summits had the CON1 and CON2 wired wrong and not only that the problematic speaker had the HVOUT on the yellow wire when it should have been red!! I hear a crazy difference on both speakers! The speakers have never sounded better and about 3x louder, but I now know that this is Martin Logan's fault as I bought them brand new! What should I do? I lost 2 years of incredible sound which I fully paid for but never fully got.

Steven

tonepub said:

I know this might sound stupid, but is there any chance your speaker came unplugged? I did this once and it drove me crazy, only to find out that I had bumped the AC cord out of the speaker.

Embarrassing, but true.

Click to expand...

Yeah, I did that too

Twist said:

...Both the Summits had the CON1 and CON2 wired wrong and not only that the problematic speaker had the HVOUT on the yellow wire when it should have been red!! I hear a crazy difference on both speakers! The speakers have never sounded better and about 3x louder, but I now know that this is Martin Logan's fault as I bought them brand new! ...

Steven

Click to expand...

I find it hard to believe they could have left the factory in that condition. ML runs each speaker through a full-range frequency response QC check before they ship out (or at least they used to!) When you say you bought them "brand new" were they in a sealed factory-fresh box, or purchased off the dealers floor? If the latter, perhaps somebody fiddled with the internals for one reason or another.

I bought my Summits used (~ 3 mo old at the time), and 2 years later discovered the original buyer had inadvertently miswired the woofers in one pair, when he was troubleshooting a loose woofer connection. The infamous (soon to be "retired") Jim Power helped me solve that problem, and mine have been singing sweetly ever since.

Anyways, glad you got the problem straightened out!

I bought them brand new in sealed factory-fresh box at regular price

Twist said:

What should I do? I lost 2 years of incredible sound which I fully paid for but never fully got.

Click to expand...

What can you do? Other than enjoy the sound that you now have. Although it is ML's responsibility to deliver a pair of speakers in good working order, it is also your responsibility to recognize the problem and make them aware of it in a timely manner. How could you listen to these for two years and not realize there was a problem? I don't see how you can complain that you lost two years of quality sound when you personally failed to identify that there was a problem that needed fixing for two years.

Twist said:

I bought them brand new in sealed factory-fresh box at regular price

Click to expand...

Perhaps your speaker was part of a run that was used to train the new people at Paradigm.

On a more serious note, this is a small forum but there seems to be more than a few problems (newer models) being reported.

Rich,

If the Summits were the first new gen model that Twist bought and he hadn't had exposure to another sample that was functioning properly (in a similar room / equipment environment) or didn't have someone come visit and listen to his system who knew how good the speaker can sound, how could he reasonably know he had a defective pair?

Gordon

Rich said:

What can you do? Other than enjoy the sound that you now have. Although it is ML's responsibility to deliver a pair of speakers in good working order, it is also your responsibility to recognize the problem and make them aware of it in a timely manner. How could you listen to these for two years and not realize there was a problem? I don't see how you can complain that you lost two years of quality sound when you personally failed to identify that there was a problem that needed fixing for two years.

Click to expand...

Hi Rich, I first purchased the Pioneer Elite Receiver (140w x7) and connected them regularly. Then I said to myself, "they don't sound as good as the showroom I listened to them in". So though these forums I discovered Emotiva. So I purchased 3 amps and did the pre-out to my new XPA-1 (2) mono-blocks and XPA-5 (1) for my ML 7.1 channel setup. The sound improved better but I then I thought, "hey I can't expect what came from the McIntosh amps and their pre-amp in the showroom". Then I bought the UMC-1 processor and the sound improved just little more. My wires were expensive too! Signal Cable wires made of silver which I ran all interconnects and speaker wire. I thought it sounded the best of what it could with my budget, LOL. But as it turns out I spent thousands more and gave up thinking it was all my fault. Piece by piece I bought my components and broke things in by pairs. I really did try Rich.

I can easily see how Twist could just "not know" something was wrong. I was a relatively early adopter of my Summits (about 5 months after first availability) and when I first heard a pair it was at Sound Advice in Boca Raton. SA was a high end subsidiary of Tweeter. The pair I heard sounded like the proverbial "du-du". I later heard a properly functioning pair at another dealer. As it turns out the 1st pair at SA had defective amps in BOTH speakers...now tell me how THAT can happen?! My pair had amp problems also and had to have both replaced two weeks after purchase. My first encounter with the famous mr Powers came very early in my ML experience...and I was impressed.

The worst part, and the moral of this story is that all the so called "experts" at SA did not have a clue that the speakers were bad...they had to be told so by a customer!!!! Me

DrJRapp said:

...now tell me how THAT can happen?! My pair had amp problems also and had to have both replaced two weeks after purchase. My first encounter with the famous mr Powers came very early in my ML experience...and I was impressed.

The worst part, and the moral of this story is that all the so called "experts" at SA did not have a clue that the speakers were bad...they had to be told so by a customer!!!! Me

Click to expand...

My understanding is the earliest versions of the Summit had an issue with the woofer amp circuit boards. Being Class D B&O IcePower modules, they apparently did NOT "play well" (literally and figuratively) when driven by Class D power amps (? others as well), and were redesigned. All of the subsequent Summits were manufactured with the revised boards, and the "early adopters" could get (DIY) replacement boards. In fact, my Summits are one of those "early" serial numbers, and although I'm now quite happy with how they sound, I'm seriously thinking of buying the replacement boards now, while I can!