Class-D Amps with Martin Logan speakers?

If you remember my older posts about running a pair of Martin Logan vantages off my Onkyo receiver then you'll know this post has been long in coming...

Anyway, I'm looking for a good 2-channel or 5-channel outboard amp to replace the internal amps of my Onkyo 705 which has served me well but just doesn't live up to the potential of the ML Vantages.

My initial thought was to get a used Rotel, Adcom, Outlaw, or similar "budget" yet still high quality dedicated amplifier. In doing this research I uncovered a lot of rave reviews for the Rotel 1077 class-D 7-channel amplifier, and now more recently the 15-series. In particular, I'm most interested in the RMB-1565 5x100 watt class-d amp. A combination of great price, clean low-distortion sound, really good low-impedance handling, and a natural doubling of power from 8 to 4ohms (and again to 2ohms) seems to make this a great buy.

Here's what I'm wondering:
1. Is 200 watts (@ 4ohm) per channel enough to do the Vantages justice? Or do i need something more robust like the rmb-1575?

2. Has anyone else here used any of these new ICE-power class-D amps with your martin logans? How do they work with ESLs? (I've heard a few good reviews, but am always looking for more first-hand experience)

3. What are some other (or possibly better?) options around the same price range ($500 - $1500)? For example, are the Emotiva amps any good??

Thanks!

system:

Onkyo TX-SR705
Martin Logan Vantage main
Martin Logan Motif center
Monitor Audio RS-6 surrounds

im also looking for amps for my Martin Logan Vista
all though my receiver seems to work fine at 110 @ 8 ohms

Ive been looking at and am very interested in the Rotel 1562 for stereo
200 @ 4 ohms, went to my local dealer and i believe they wanted 1299 for this amp

rotel also has a separate 5 channel amp to go with the 1562 to make full 7 setup

looking for amps has been completely driving me crazy these past few days

Not sure if it was a problem or even a warranty issue, but I do know that some 'Logans (powered 'Logans only I think) had problems with the sensing circuit or in-built amplifiers when running with Class-D amps. Try a search.

Hello, i have ML Clarity, Motif and 2 Helos20 and an Onkyo sr805.
This weekend i buy an ROTEL 1575 (5x250W) classe D. With this amp, it's like a have new speakers.

More controled bass and seems like I took a blanket in front of the speakers.

5 stars...

FWIW - I've run a Rotel RB985 with my Aerius, Cinema, Vignette combo and I think it works very well. 100wpc @ 8, 200wpc @ 4. I just picked up some Ascents and decided to go bigger on the amp, too, but haven't picked anything up yet. If you'e interested in the 985, PM me, it will be for sale.

I run my Summits on Bel Canto reference (1000w each monoblocks) and they sound great. have compared versus decent 200w solid state amps (B&K; NAD) and the difference is substantially better. More effortless, cleaner sound, less background grunge especially at louder volumes. Havent compared against the PassLab, Plinius variety

You may add Sunfire two channel and multi-channel amps to the mix. Many here at MLOC use them including myself.

The Sunfire amps are known for clean sound that carries lots of headroom.

They double down as the ohms drop and can go to 1 ohm without much difficulty.

One other nice characteristic is that they run cool in a cabinet or rack as compared to other A or B class amps.

And they are almost always available on A'gon for a good price

ronning said:

2. Has anyone else here used any of these new ICE-power class-D amps with your martin logans? How do they work with ESLs? (I've heard a few good reviews, but am always looking for more first-hand experience)

Click to expand...

I was an early adopter of the 1077 and did an extensive review of it on Club Rotel on another popular forum. The title of the review was "Watch out Krell, here comes Rotel". At that time I had not yet acquired my ML Summits but I did find the amp to be compelling and sweet with the speakers I was useing at the time.

I did run NewForce Ref 9s ( a class D competitor to the ICE module amps) for awhile and found that the the early Vantage and Summits did have an issue with the woofers sensing the class D signal and turning on, but that was fixed immediatly by ML and all effected speakers were or will be retrofitted by ML with a newer amp free of charge. I found the sound of the Ref 9s to be somewhat too forward for my taste so I sold them and went to a pair of Aragon Palladium Monoblocks...real blockbuster powerhouses.

JMAUSGP said:

You may add Sunfire two channel and multi-channel amps to the mix. Many here at MLOC use them including myself.

The Sunfire amps are known for clean sound that carries lots of headroom.

They double down as the ohms drop and can go to 1 ohm without much difficulty.

One other nice characteristic is that they run cool in a cabinet or rack as compared to other A or B class amps.

And they are almost always available on A'gon for a good price

Click to expand...

+1:rocker:

Hi all,

Just read the thread as listening to my Murano P-1000s driving my ML Spires. In the last month or so I was listening to the Spires through my rebuilt Beard Audio P100 tube power amplifier. The rebuilt Beard is surely one of the better tube amps I have had the pleasure t olisten t oin my listening room. I love the tube warmth, sound stage and looks :ROFL:

This morning I decided to re-connect my Class D ICEPower amplifiers and give them a listen. Within minutes there was a huge smile on my face. Its only after listening t oother amplifiers for a while that you truely understand how special these amplifiers are. The superb level of detail against a totaly black and silent background, the huge soundstage, the texture of instruments, and seperation of part, the palpability of voices, its all there. I was truely amazed as I have not heard these amps during the last month and forgot what level of sonic performance they are capable of.

True, the tube based amplifier had a bit more warmth in the mid which did voocals justice. But when I hear these same voices layered on the huge, detailed sonic picture the ICEPower based amps present, I most certainly much prefer the later.

I think the ICEPower based amps with their limit less power are amongst the best amplifiers the high end industry has to offer today.

I will keep the Beard for those times when I listen to more intimate small ensambles and for the sheer joy of seeing those glowin tubes but when ultimate sonic performance is required the ICEPower will give service.

Just my 2 cents
R

Out of curiosity, which D-Class amps are you using? Rotel? Wyred4sound?

Also, do you happen to know how the new RMB-1565 compares to the older RMB-1077?

Thanks!

ronenash said:

Hi all,


This morning I decided to re-connect my Class D ICEPower amplifiers and give them a listen. Within minutes there was a huge smile on my face. Its only after listening t oother amplifiers for a while that you truely understand how special these amplifiers are. The superb level of detail against a totaly black and silent background, the huge soundstage, the texture of instruments, and seperation of part, the palpability of voices, its all there. I was truely amazed as I have not heard these amps during the last month and forgot what level of sonic performance they are capable of.


Just my 2 cents
R

Click to expand...

ronning said:

Out of curiosity, which D-Class amps are you using? Rotel? Wyred4sound?

Also, do you happen to know how the new RMB-1565 compares to the older RMB-1077?

Thanks!

Click to expand...

I am using the Murano Audio P-1000s which is based on ICEPower 1000ASP modules. Each monoblock has a lyndhal input transformer similar to the Jeff Rowland 505.
Unfortunately I am not familiar with the Rotel 1565. If its class D you should try to find out which modules are used inside as these impact the sound the most. The ICEPower 1000ASP modules are amazing.

ronning said:

If you remember my older posts about running a pair of Martin Logan vantages off my Onkyo receiver then you'll know this post has been long in coming...

Anyway, I'm looking for a good 2-channel or 5-channel outboard amp to replace the internal amps of my Onkyo 705 which has served me well but just doesn't live up to the potential of the ML Vantages.

My initial thought was to get a used Rotel, Adcom, Outlaw, or similar "budget" yet still high quality dedicated amplifier. In doing this research I uncovered a lot of rave reviews for the Rotel 1077 class-D 7-channel amplifier, and now more recently the 15-series. In particular, I'm most interested in the RMB-1565 5x100 watt class-d amp. A combination of great price, clean low-distortion sound, really good low-impedance handling, and a natural doubling of power from 8 to 4ohms (and again to 2ohms) seems to make this a great buy.

Here's what I'm wondering:
1. Is 200 watts (@ 4ohm) per channel enough to do the Vantages justice? Or do i need something more robust like the rmb-1575?

2. Has anyone else here used any of these new ICE-power class-D amps with your martin logans? How do they work with ESLs? (I've heard a few good reviews, but am always looking for more first-hand experience)

3. What are some other (or possibly better?) options around the same price range ($500 - $1500)? For example, are the Emotiva amps any good??

Thanks!

system:

Onkyo TX-SR705
Martin Logan Vantage main
Martin Logan Motif center
Monitor Audio RS-6 surrounds

Click to expand...

I had a pair of Bel Canto Evo Ref 500 monoblocks driving my CLXs for a number of weeks. They were more than adequate in sound stage, dynamics and musicality. The only area where they yielded some ground (when compared to my Pass X-350.5) was in the deepest bass and depth of image. Without a doubt, Class D amplification has become much stronger in the past few years and offers a "green" alternative to traditional Class A and A/B amps.

ronning said:

In particular, I'm most interested in the RMB-1565 5x100 watt class-d amp. A combination of great price, clean low-distortion sound, really good low-impedance handling, and a natural doubling of power from 8 to 4ohms (and again to 2ohms) seems to make this a great buy.

Click to expand...

I would recommend going for the Rotel 1575.. there is a big difference in dynamics and low end punch. My dealer steered me away from the 100wpc and I went for the 1572.. the two channel version. I can definitely tell the difference when running from the AVR (Rotel 7x100 class D) and the 1572. Actually put the 1572 back into the system this weekend (I recently moved and was not using it for 3 months) and got the WOW factor again.
Good hunting!

I run my CLS II with Halcro MC50, (200w in 8Ohm, 350 in 4Ohm) In my ears it`s a very good combination. But still reading others of theire CLS, I think they my CLS still perform a bit better. But just a bit, cause in the right mood, right music I am in a Nirvana state..
As a Pre I am using Halcro SSP 220.

Note: even though Mc50 power, it still cuts off if playing very loud. CLS are diffcult load.

class d amp vs. tubes

I have a pr. of full range stats cls iiz I had a wyred 4 sound st500 (250wtt/ch/8ohs /500wtt/ch/4ohms.... it sound very good but very sterile , thats with a tube preamp to.( just my opinion) I purchased (200wtt/ch 8ohm ) jolida tube mono blks and WOW !!!! tubes are the only way to go and you dont need alot of power,cuz its all about current my friend. ck out the used mkt ,for the price of a new ice amp ,you can buy a classic tube amp and you will love the sound as will as its cool to see the glow ,lol Takecare and long live Frankie and tube audio....:music:

DrJRapp said:

...I did run NewForce Ref 9s ( a class D competitor to the ICE module amps) for awhile and found that the the early Vantage and Summits did have an issue with the woofers sensing the class D signal and turning on, but that was fixed immediatly by ML and all effected speakers were or will be retrofitted by ML with a newer amp free of charge.

Click to expand...

Got my Wyred4Sound MC 500 "Ice Cube" amp last night... Took it home and hooked everything up. Powered it on... WOW! Then, 6 minutes later, both Summits went into standby mode. Sure seems like my speakers have the same thing that DrJRapp says above. Unplugged the speaker, then plugged them in again... they came back on and sound fantastic. again, 6 minutes later, standby mode.

I've got a call into ML tech support.... stay tuned.

Just got off the phone with ML tech support and new power supplies will be shipped out to me which will take care of the problem. YAY. Once again, ML tech support shows that they are still the best in the business... YAY!!

Tom. So is that a freebee???
Lets hear a comparison vs your pass. I would think they would be worlds away from one another. Once you can run longer than 6 minutes !!!

TomDac said:

Just got off the phone with ML tech support and new power supplies will be shipped out to me which will take care of the problem. YAY. Once again, ML tech support shows that they are still the best in the business... YAY!!

Click to expand...

Mmmmmm - makes you worry about Class-D sound if something as simple as a power supply needs to be upgraded to cater for it.