Panel Sound Difference Crossing 80hz Down to Sub

Can you guys tell me if you heard any differences in sound when you used a crossover to put anything below 80hz going to subwoofers so the ML panel is only receiving the signal above 80hz? Specifically, did your ML's sound way better this way or just a minimal difference?

I am running Odyssey's now with one depth sub. The plan is to either pick up another depth or if there is a significant difference with having no lows below 80hz going to the speakers either getting a pair of Vandersteen w2q's or JL audio, etc.

One other point. I plan an amp upgrade down the line. If I go the subs with the crossover , I could get the lower wattage 150 watt amp as compared to the 250 watt amp that I suspect would be required running full range. Both amps have the same sonic signature, except the 250 watt model cost quite a bit more. Looking forward to your observations and comments.
Thanks, Greg

Greg,

To get the most out of your Odysseys, I highly suggest bi-amping them. Putting separate amps on the panels and woofers really takes the sound up a notch all the way up and down the frequency range. On my Ascents (same gen as your Odysseys), I found that a quality tube amp on the panels and a solid state amp on the woofers really boosted the dynamics, coherence, and overall sound quality. But even separate solid state amps would help a lot, I think.

Personally, for music, I would set the sub crossover as low as you can.

I use a Tact 2.2X room correction preamp with my Martin Logan CLS IIz's and BK Electronics Monolith subwoofer. Ive set it so that my CLS's play down to 90 Hz only where my BK Monolith takes over and plays from 90 Hz downwards. I've noticed that the higher I set the crossover in the bass region, the louder I can turn up the volume without the speaker falling apart and distortion kicking in. System plays and sounds great like this.

Rich said:

Greg,

To get the most out of your Odysseys, I highly suggest bi-amping them. Putting separate amps on the panels and woofers really takes the sound up a notch all the way up and down the frequency range. On my Ascents (same gen as your Odysseys), I found that a quality tube amp on the panels and a solid state amp on the woofers really boosted the dynamics, coherence, and overall sound quality. But even separate solid state amps would help a lot, I think.

Personally, for music, I would set the sub crossover as low as you can.

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Rich,

I now have the depth hooked from the rca out on the pre and am running the amp from the XLR out. If , I got a tube amp for the panels, I would have to run that off the rca out at the pre. How then would you hook up the depth?

Would something like a 275 mac do for ther panels or do you have other suggestions for a tube amp for just the panels? I just thought also if I went to a tube amp on the panels I would be into swithching speaker wires from my current bi-wire to 2 single sets of wire.It's kind of pricey when you factor in the tube amp and 2 sets of wire.

MOON said:

Rich,

I now have the depth hooked from the rca out on the pre and am running the amp from the XLR out. If , I got a tube amp for the panels, I would have to run that off the rca out at the pre. How then would you hook up the depth?

Would something like a 275 mac do for ther panels or do you have other suggestions for a tube amp for just the panels? I just thought also if I went to a tube amp on the panels I would be into swithching speaker wires from my current bi-wire to 2 single sets of wire.It's kind of pricey when you factor in the tube amp and 2 sets of wire.

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You can get Y-splitters for your RCA's and hook both the amp and the depth off of them that way. In fact, that is just what I did, except with a Descent. Of course, if you already have bi-wire cables, isn't that just like a big y-splitter? You could use it as such, and then just need to buy one separate set of cables.

As for the mac, I know that some people love them with their ML's. Jeff Dorgay (tonepub) thinks, and I tend to agree with him, that they roll off the highs a bit much. I used a Conrad Johnson Premier 140 with great success. But there are lots of choices: Cary, Rogue, Manley, ARC, BAT, CJ all make great tube amps that will match up well with them. There are many others I am sure. If you go this route, the one thing to be careful about is matching the gain on the amps. You need the amp for the panel to have the same voltage gain as the amp for the woofers, or you get a volume mismatch between the two.

If you don't want to deal with all that is involved with a tube amp, you can always still biamp with two solid state amps and get a lot of benefit. Especially if you could put a good class A amp on the panels, like a Pass Labs or something like that. Just a thought. Ok, I'll stop spending your money now.

MOON said:

Can you guys tell me if you heard any differences in sound when you used a crossover to put anything below 80hz going to subwoofers so the ML panel is only receiving the signal above 80hz? Specifically, did your ML's sound way better this way or just a minimal difference?

Click to expand...

Yes, much better sound out of my Vista's using an external electronic crossover (Marchand) to my JL F112. I've only tried my 80Hz and 70Hz points so far, but have a 65Hz and 60Hz to try also. Between the 80Hz and 70Hz points, I prefer the 70Hz point. Since the sub is doing all the dirty work it allows the Vista to really shine and my Pass amp doesn't work as hard either!

Greg, removal of the low frequencies from pretty much any 2-way speaker will improve its performance in the mid-bass region.

Since the woofer is no longer being asked to deliver high-displacement low-frequencies, there will be a lot less distortion from that range impinging on the mid-bass (80 - 300hz).

So yes, the impression that the main speaker (woofer and panel) sounds better is quite real and measurable.

As for which crossover point would work best, a lot has to do with room placement and specific models. So testing is recommended.

For an Odyssey and the subs you are mentioning, 80Hz is as high as I'd go, and more likely to recommend 60 or 70hz.

As Rich points out, the next step is to also bi-amp the Odyssey. Although I'd recommend good SS amps on the panel for highest accuracy.