ML Production moving

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Kinda makes their recent marketing campaign as "The Great American Speaker Company... Handcrafted Electrostatic Speakers From the Heartland" a joke! http://www.martinlogan.com/

I, too, find it a slap in the face to move production to another country so soon after introducing this hokey marketing campaign. No question in my mind that the marketing campaign was instituted for the sole purpose of minimizing PR damage from this move. I can't believe that they hadn't already decided to make this move when they instituted that campaign.

This is another reason I am concerned for the brand. Obviously, they think the marketing message is more important than the reality of the corporate actions they take. That is a bad omen for the future.
 
On the other hand...

...if done right, change can be a VERY good thing. It is often the difference between survival or death, and between bare survival or thriving success. Were that not the case, we would still have been tree dwelling monkeys, enjoying the audiophile sound of waterfalls and swishing grass ;)

Ultimately, ML's stakeholders are its shareholders which in this case are its private owners (Shoreview and whoever else now owns them; I suspect and hope the founders still have some shares although that hasnt been clear from the press releases). Responsible owners always realize that the long-term, actual "owners" of any company are really its customers. To keep customers happy, you have to have an "edge" (e.g. an idea, an innovation) over the competition and you have to attract and retain talent that can help you convert that "edge" into actual products that customers see as valuable. Finance and company management is ultimately that simple to define, but incredibly more difficult to execute.

If ML/Shoreview "get" the above Paradigm (no pun intended), they have an opportunity to transform ML. Transformation would IMO be from a beloved, succesful but frankly just a small, likely moderate margin, mom-and-pop outfit into a highly succesful, global, even more beloved, profitable, stable audiophile institution that retains all of the magic of the past, but allows a growing clientele to enjoy it and the most competitive prices possible. ML is not an institution today but it has the opportunity to become one. I suspect there are very few institutions in high end audio/video.

If ML/Shoreview don't "get" the above paradigm, they will without question destroy ML as a brand and a company, likely losing their own shirts in the pursuit of near-term profits. There is also a chance that they will milk ML, sell it to the next idiot, and get out.

But I hope they get the above paradigm, recognize the value of what they have bought and make it even better while malking it bigger and more profitable.

I don't personally know the Shoreview team but I hope they don't forget that the highway is red with the roadkills of failed Private Equity-owned companies. Some failed after the PE shops had returned their profits and got out. Others failed while still being PE-owned, thereby going down with their owner's shirts.

what would others on this forum do if they owned ML?

"ShoreView Industries Inc., based in Minneapolis, manages a $300 million private equity limited partnership. ShoreView invests this partnership in established, middle-market companies with operations in North America, across a wide range of industries. ShoreView structures a variety of acquisition, recapitalization and build-up transactions, typically in businesses with revenues ranging between $20 million and $150 million.
 
I, too, find it a slap in the face to move production to another country so soon after introducing this hokey marketing campaign. No question in my mind that the marketing campaign was instituted for the sole purpose of minimizing PR damage from this move. I can't believe that they hadn't already decided to make this move when they instituted that campaign.

This is another reason I am concerned for the brand. Obviously, they think the marketing message is more important than the reality of the corporate actions they take. That is a bad omen for the future.

I will have to say I total agree with everything you said right here ! that slogan now really sounds like a load of bull but hey in the end perhaps the speakers will be better you just never know I personally have not been 100% satisfied with the build quality of some of their american made products especially their upper echelon ones for some time considering the price tag perhaps neither where they. maybe the shrinking size of speaker and build material had as much to do with the WAF factor as it did with the cost of a business these days in the good old U.S.A. I will always buy American if I can but sometimes foreign is just way better and sometimes I think it's often better if we invent it and let somebody else build it like the car is a good example of that. I think if they are gonna manufacture their products outside of the country they should give the "great american speaker company" a rest.
 
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This is unfortunate, and really sucks for those affected. I view this a little differently though. While status quo would be great, as other high end companies have shown, status quo would likely end up in Martin Logan going out of business eventually. If they can preserve their niche through careful manufacturing consolidation, that is better than them going out of business, or selling out the essence of the brand. Granted, the essence may diminish over time regardless, but let's hope not.

Interesting that sales are up, but I suspect that is due to higher volume of the lower priced products. Speaking from experience, that does not necessarily equate to higher profits. I can almost guarantee that the lower priced stuff they are selling through Best Buy is much lower profit margin, even with the Chinese manufacturing, than the ESL series speakers. However, it gets the brand out there, and gives them revenue and volume necessary to continue to invest in the ESL stuff...and that's a good thing for all of us.
 
Quite a few here believe the move is being made because of ML problems with their bottom line. I believe that owing to the abrupt nature of the move it is being initiated to keep the lower cost people at Paradigm busy and keep that plant closer to capacity. No consideration was given to the impact on ML quality or the lines would have been "transitioned" one at a time. The ShoreView people are pure numbers crunchers and not audio enthusiasts.

I'm also willing to wager that we will see one or two key people from the current lineup living in Canada very soon.
 
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:( I may be wrong, but this is bound to end badly.

Unlike the Harmon Kardon acquisitions of Lexicon and Madrigal, this ownership group is not dedicated (they haven't shown it yet) to quality audio but to profits.

I hope that I am wrong, but it may be time to order replacement panel (especially the big ones).
 
The ShoreView people are pure numbers crunchers and not audio enthusiasts.

this does not sound good I hope they don'y ruin something so many people took so long to build up.
 
I will always buy American if I can but sometimes foreign is just way better and sometimes I think it's often better if we invent it and let somebody else build it like the car is a good example of that. I think if they are gonna manufacture their products outside of the country they should give the "great american speaker company" a rest.

But ML will remain an American company; the fact that more of its products will be manufactured in a different country won't affect that. It's much the same as with the "big 5" American car companies: a lot of their stuff is also made in Canada, apparently. So I think it's OK for ML to use "the great Anerican speaker company" as their tag line, but agree that they should maybe tone down the "from the heartland" bit.

BTW, talking of cars, if I read what you wrote correctly you seem to be saying that the car was invented in the US. It wasn't; Karl Benz (a Germen, of Mercedes-Benz fame) is credited with that invention. GRanted it was Henry Ford (an American) who pioneered the use of the assembly line, but that's not the same thing...
 
What would some of you do if you owned Martin Logan? If we generate any good ideas, maybe someone can summarize all the ideas and send a note to the ML CEO signed "From some of your customers"...
 
When we toured the factory, they made a point of explaining how difficult it was to learn the process for stretching the mylar membrane over the panels, and how their best folks had ten or more years experience doing it. According to them, as I recall, it took three to five years for someone to truly master it. More of an art than a science.

Actually Rich it was the antiquated old wooden 'jigs' that required a real skilled touch in ESL assembly, for if you remember they were bringing on line at the time we were out there the fancy aluminum railed, damn near automated assembly / stretching units which would allow an assembler to master the technique in very short order. I'm sure by now that's all they use so addaptation in Canada should be a breeze !

Regardless..........remember this.......can anyone on this forum tell me the last time a M/ L subwoofer was made in this country ??
 
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Regardless..........remember this.......can anyone on this forum tell me the last time a M/ L subwoofer was made in this country ??

and they make a great sub! I still think that the build quality dollar for dollar is better on their foreign made stuff, remember the plastic problem on the vista - vantages yuk ! I know that some of the (vista is foreign) they should not use plastic their to begin with :( that really ****ed me off when I had that problem on three sets of speakers.really to be honest with other problems I have seen construction could only improve and I hope it does lets just hope that the customer service stays the same :)
 
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... lets just hope that the customer service stays the same :)

I don't understand how Jim Powers and his service colleagues will be able to maintain their excellent support when production is taking place elsewhere. I wonder if Shoreview plans to relocate the Customer Support team to Ontario, or merge it with the Paradigm support?

Frankly, I see the "writing on the wall" spelling out a future Paradigm + ML merger resulting in MLP = MartinLoganParadigm!
 
I don't understand how Jim Powers and his service colleagues will be able to maintain their excellent support when production is taking place elsewhere. I wonder if Shoreview plans to relocate the Customer Support team to Ontario, or merge it with the Paradigm support?

Frankly, I see the "writing on the wall" spelling out a future Paradigm + ML merger resulting in MLP = MartinLoganParadigm!

customer service is handled easily now with a phone call I think they could keep things the same if they would like only time will tell. the reason I purchased Logan to begin with is the same reason I bought my tube McIntosh sound/service I like to have both when I fork over that kind of money.
 
... I see the "writing on the wall" spelling out a future Paradigm + ML merger resulting in MLP = MartinLoganParadigm!

Actually, I just had a great idea! Design and market a new line of decor-friendly speakers designed for SPOUSES... and call it the PMS line...
ParadigmMartinloganforSpouses! :D
 
Actually, I just had a great idea! Design and market a new line of decor-friendly speakers designed for SPOUSES... and call it the PMS line...
ParadigmMartinloganforSpouses! :D


Easy buddy let's not jump the gun just yet everything might be just fine they have been in business a long time lets give them more credit than that.
 
Actually, I just had a great idea! Design and market a new line of decor-friendly speakers designed for SPOUSES... and call it the PMS line...
ParadigmMartinloganforSpouses! :D

Great idea--but of course, they'll only work for a couple of days each month. :)
 
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