A change of Pace

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W9TR

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Minneapolis, MN
I've been very happy with my conventional Vienna Acoustics Beethoven Concert Grand speakers. I've been upgrading my electronics, and think it may be time for a speaker change. I have an opportunity to buy a pair of used Vistas locally for $1800, which seems like a fair price. Should I use this opportunity to get a taste of the ML sound?

My listening room is 18 x 30, somewhat irregularly shaped and I've got my current speakers setup on the long wall about 4' from the back wall. I listen in the close field, the speakers about 12' apart and the main listening area 12' from the speakers, forming an equilateral triangle. So I think I can accomodate the Vistas keeping away from room boundaries, no problemo.

A couple of questions...
I understand the Vista's use an 8" woofer. My current speakers use 3 7" woofers, a lot more cone area. How's the bass and midbass in the Vista?
I have a set of 12" ACI subs and a separate amp/bass EQ I can use to augment the low end, below 60 Hz, so response way down low is not the issue for me, it's the mid-bass and how the panel crosses over....

I understand the panel crosses over around 400 Hz - this seems high to me, and at a critical point for male vocals, saxophone, etc. Will I find this an issue? I understand as you move to bigger panels the crossover frequency goes down, which I consider a good thing.

My electronics is pretty revealing already. Could this be too much of a good thing with ML's?

Will I be able to flip the Vistas without losing an arm and a leg?

Thanks a lot, I know this is a lot of questions. I've done some listening, but the room setups are not great and the associated electronics and all the differneces make it hard for me to find the magic I know is there.
 
I've been very happy with my conventional Vienna Acoustics Beethoven Concert Grand speakers. I've been upgrading my electronics, and think it may be time for a speaker change. I have an opportunity to buy a pair of used Vistas locally for $1800, which seems like a fair price. Should I use this opportunity to get a taste of the ML sound?

My listening room is 18 x 30, somewhat irregularly shaped and I've got my current speakers setup on the long wall about 4' from the back wall. I listen in the close field, the speakers about 12' apart and the main listening area 12' from the speakers, forming an equilateral triangle. So I think I can accomodate the Vistas keeping away from room boundaries, no problemo.

A couple of questions...
I understand the Vista's use an 8" woofer. My current speakers use 3 7" woofers, a lot more cone area. How's the bass and midbass in the Vista?
I have a set of 12" ACI subs and a separate amp/bass EQ I can use to augment the low end, below 60 Hz, so response way down low is not the issue for me, it's the mid-bass and how the panel crosses over....

I understand the panel crosses over around 400 Hz - this seems high to me, and at a critical point for male vocals, saxophone, etc. Will I find this an issue? I understand as you move to bigger panels the crossover frequency goes down, which I consider a good thing.

My electronics is pretty revealing already. Could this be too much of a good thing with ML's?

Will I be able to flip the Vistas without losing an arm and a leg?

Thanks a lot, I know this is a lot of questions. I've done some listening, but the room setups are not great and the associated electronics and all the differneces make it hard for me to find the magic I know is there.

Hola and welcome. You have a very nice electronics. ML sound is a matter of liking. It's like opera: you like it or you do not. Do not worry about the blend of the woofer with the panel. ML has being doing this long time ago, and I assure you that they do have solved the problem. Just think of this: a diaphragm that weights less than the air that it moves...this is the heart of all ML electrostatic. Also, do not worry about the size of the woofer. The Vista has a very nice detail bass...you can understand the difference between a F and a F# with no problem. With the aid of a sub, and the quality of your system, you will have a killer system. The right size of the instruments, and the image, the transparent sound of ML makes them a very hard to beat. Cone speakers have too much mass, and also do not show the coherence that you have with ML. Listen to them, and trust your ears! You will find them truthful. Listen how easy is to listen the left hand of a piano player and all nuances that are in the interpretation. Usually, you listen to music, with ML you listen the musician(s) playing for you there...in your own place...happy listening,
Roberto.
 
I've been very happy with my conventional Vienna Acoustics Beethoven Concert Grand speakers. I've been upgrading my electronics, and think it may be time for a speaker change. I have an opportunity to buy a pair of used Vistas locally for $1800, which seems like a fair price. Should I use this opportunity to get a taste of the ML sound?

it will give you a taste for sure, will they blow away your Vienna's....I doubt it, the Beethoven Concert Grands are mighty fine, IMO




I understand the panel crosses over around 400 Hz - this seems high to me, and at a critical point for male vocals, saxophone, etc. Will I find this an issue? I understand as you move to bigger panels the crossover frequency goes down, which I consider a good thing.

Can't say, but I suspect you will be able to discern the difference between them and your Vienna's, if you hearing is sensitive there it very well may not be to your liking. With respect to further up the line cross-over going lower, that is also a cooralation to bass driver size increasing.

My electronics is pretty revealing already. Could this be too much of a good thing with ML's?

never.... for quite simply ....you want revealing not only to highlight all the good but clearly point out the areas in need of improvement.

Will I be able to flip the Vistas without losing an arm and a leg?

Given your purchase price I don't see why not !

FWIW, I have spent considerable time listening through the Vienna's you have (buddy of mine has a pair) and I find them to be a superb transducer so if you do go through with this expiriment I look forward to your findings but remember this....as good as the Vista's are they are but a mere glimpse of what further up the Logan line can provide !

Oh ....BTW....:welcome:
 
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Thanks!

Thanks Roberto, Dave;
I really appreciate your insights, and the fact you both read my very long post. The Vista sounds like a great way to see if I like the ML 'house sound' over time. After that I know it can be a steep slope as you get nearer the top of the line.

Dave, thanks for your feedback on the VA BCG's - I think they do a great job, but am just looking for a more sonically integrated experience I think a panel speaker will provide.

Thanks again for helping a not-yet-newbie.

Tom
 
Welcome W9TR!

I own the Vistas and think its a great speaker for the price! I wanted a ML speaker that didn't have the powered bass driver since I'm running a sub. I puchased the Vista's used off of Agon for $2200 in November 08. I think $1800 is a great price and you should be able to get your money back out of them if you don't like.
 
W9TR,
Welcome tot he site. Let us know what you thoughts are about VA BCG vs Vistas. I am still ont he fence about a Spire purchase and was eying the VA VA BCG, too.
 
Churchill - beautiful room. I'm a big fan of appropriate treatments - I did my HT in 1" fiberglass panels, 2" behind the screen, at it made a huge difference in clarity.
Tom
 
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