CLX vs SummitX vs Magico V3 - anyone?

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So just because I question your opinion, I am a troll now in need to prove my intentions? Read my post again, it was not about Magico it was about your option of the YG. Personal attacks will not change the fact that you had publicly promoted a lousy product. Let me guess, we will soon see some YG ads in you magazine? I do appreciate the fact that you had clearly stated your preferences when it comes to speakers. I will keep that in mind next time I read (Or not) anything you write. I am out of here. Sorry for interrupting this hegemonies forum.

Rich:
Here is your link.

http://www.soundstagenetwork.com/measurements/speakers/yg_anat_ref_main_module/

Feel free to compare it to a $4K PSB
 
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Let's see . . . you come on here trashing Jeff before so much as saying hi, then you brag about all the high dollar speakers you own or have friends who own, you trash the YG's supposedly based on one listening session and decry how awful they measure and sound, then when called on all of your BS you refuse to provide the slightest evidence to back up anything you say and run off in a huff. Yep, DEFINITE TROLL!

Rich:
Here is your link.

http://www.soundstagenetwork.com/measurements/speakers/yg_anat_ref_main_module/

Feel free to compare it to a $4K PSB

And from that link, the first paragraph states:

PLEASE NOTE: Our standard is to provide the THD+N measurement at 90dB with a measuring distance of 2 meters (within the anechoic chamber). Since this speaker produced low distortion levels under those conditions, we have added a second measurement performed at 95dB to give an indication of performance under higher-output conditions.

(emphasis added)

Looks like your own link directly contradicts your statements. Those charts also show pretty decent off-axis response except in the highest frequencies. In fact, their charts on the Magico V2 and the Wilson Sofia shows that the Anat's response curve is flatter than either of those throughout most of the listening band, the Anat's off-axis response curves are as good or better than both, and it's distortion levels are just slightly higher than either.

Magico V2 Link

Wilson Sofia 2 Link
 
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Rich,
It looks like you need some help reading these measurements yourself so I guess I will stick around a bit longer. Please compare the YG THD to http://www.soundstagenetwork.com/measurements/speakers/psb_synchrony_one/ THD
See any differences between high THD and low? Look at the tweeter response at 30 degree of-axis as well. See any differences? Let me guess, probably not? Perhaps Jeff can help you understand the meaning of these.
 
Joe,

If you got a hangup about YG and you don't agree with Jeff, or don't like hearing another person's opinion that is inconsistent with yours, and if you think someone can't read graphs correctly, fine.

But frankly, you are acting like an immature child that hasn't gotten his way.

MOMMY MOMMY! JEFFY HIT ME!

NO, I DIDN'T.

YES, YOU DID.

Please do all of us a favor.

Take your "YG sucks" rant / attitude elsewhere, and, as you previously offered, be out of here.

Thank you for your cooperation.

Gordon
 
"distortion levels are just slightly higher than either"

Let's see, THD on the Wilson are about 45db down vs. only 20db down at 500Hz on the YG? The YG THD at 500Hz are more than twice as high as they are on the Wilson. You call it slightly higher? Anymore "reality banding" you wish to present? The thing is that you can hear all that. Especially at high volume were the speakers start to shriek.
 
Joe,



Please do all of us a favor.

Take your "YG sucks" rant / attitude elsewhere, and, as you previously offered, be out of here.

Thank you for your cooperation.

Gordon

I was trying to but you are all keeping me in here. If you wish me to go, try ignoring my posts, you know like adults do.
 
We review plenty of gear from advertisers and non advertisers. It's probably about a 40% non advertiser to 60% advertiser ratio at this point.

Doesn't really matter to me, we review everything we can get our hands on if we feel it's valid product.

And unlike a few of the magazines, that demand a product have X number of dealers before they will review their product, we try every year to give a few brand new products a review, in the hope that it will build some buzz for them.

Some have stayed in business, some have gone under, but we always try and give a few new guys a break.

So whether YG comes on board as an advertiser or not, is immaterial. Wilson buys 4 pages of ads at Stereophile and TAS, Magico and Hansen buy two, YG buys two, etc etc. These guys all need to eat.

If you don't like the YG it's obviously not your speaker. Same with Magico. It's obviously not my speaker. That doesn't mean Magico is a BAD speaker or a BAD company. It's not a product I particularly care for. Doesn't mean you shouldn't buy a pair.

You're still sounding like a major troll to me!
 
Here we go again...

Jeff and co are all capable of defending themselves, but I have to agree with them. Your behaviour is remarkably troll-like.

This forum welcomes polite, reasoned debate and dissenting opinions. You are of course entitled to hold any opinion you want, and chose how to express said opinion. But it is (to say the least) a bit disingenious to join a forum and fire volleys at senior, respected members without even saying "hi" and establishing some sort of credibility for yourself first. I'm sure your arguments would hold more sway if you'd done that first...

I'm not suggesting you should go away, but I do think you should learn a little netiquette. Let us get to know you; why not post your system (with photos please) in the Members' systems area?
 
I was trying to but you are all keeping me in here. If you wish me to go, try ignoring my posts, you know like adults do.

Joe,

Classic passive / aggressive response.

The attacker becomes the victim. :ROFL:

Gordon
 
The thing is that you can hear all that. Especially at high volume were the speakers start to shriek.

Give me a break!

The Wilsons had peaks around 1%; the ANATs around 3%. Big Deal.

These speakers were measured in an anechoic chamber at 90 d.b. at 2 meters. That is way, way, louder than any real world normal listening levels. A difference of a mere 2% in speaker distortion levels measured at these volumes would be completely inaudible at any listening level that didn't bust your eardrums.

If you think you can hear that small a level of measured distortion from speakers, you are living in a dream world.
 
Rich,

That reminds of one of my current projects.

I'm the Project Manager for the new Emergency Operations Center in Teton County.

Amongst other things, I ended up choosing the six monitors that will be wall mounted. I decided to go for LCD's, given the "less energy consumed" specs between LCD's and plasmas.

The LCD folks are using a "contrast ratio" spec to apparently separate their product from the others.

As opposed to the 500,000 to 1 spec for the television I chose, there are LCD's that purportedly offer a ratio of 2,000,000 to 1.

I love numbers.

Gordon
 
Give me a break!

The Wilsons had peaks around 1%; the ANATs around 3%. Big Deal.

Sure it is only 300% higher. Not a big deal. I do not see Mr. Gray, the mathematician, correcting you here... I would love to spend that kind of money for such high THD... BTW, it is more like 5% vs. 0.6% and it is right in the middle of the midrange. These level of distortions are VERY audible, if you know what you are listening to, which apparently, some here do not. Also, peaks at moderate levels, will easily reach and exceed these levels.
 
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Sure it is only 300%. Not a big deal.

Yes, and three pennies is 300% more than one penny, but it still won't buy you a cup of coffee.

BTW, it is more like 5% vs. 0.6% and it is right in the middle of the midrange.

Ummm, no. Apparently, you are the one who needs help reading a chart. The peak you reference measures 59 db, with a reference level of 90 db. That's a difference of 31 db, which puts it right at 3%. For reference, -30 d.b. equals 3.16%. The Wilson's have a peak at 400 Hz. that measures 48 d.b., with a reference level at 90. That equals -42 db., which is just below 1%. For reference, -40 db. equals exactly 1%.

And for the record, distortion is much more perceivable at the higher frequencies than in the midrange. If you knew what you were talking about, you would be more concerned about the peak at 8 khz., but then if you knew what you were talking about we wouldn't be having this discussion.

These level of distortions are VERY audible, if you know what you are listening to, which apparently, some here do not. BTW, peaks at moderate levels, will easily reach and exceed these levels.

No, sorry, but Wrong! Harmonic distortion that is measured at 3% at 90 db. in an anechoic chamber is going to be much lower at normal listening levels. Do you have a clue how loud 90 db. at 2 meters in an anechoic chamber is? At normal listening levels, that same speaker's distortion is probably less than 1%, which is impossible to detect with the human ear. There are studies that show between 2% to 4% distortion is just barely perceivable at normal listening levels.

It is telling that Soundstage didn't feel this speaker was being driven hard enough at 90 db. to really produce much distortion, so they also provided a measurement at 95 db. to show how it performs when driven harder (and even then it didn't distort much over 4%). Interesting, the experts all seem to think that this speaker measures very well and has low distortion levels. Only you seem to think otherwise.
 
Rich,
Not sure where you got your "audio" education, but if I were you, I would not rush to post it publicly so fast. I will not be able to help you anymore. I would leave you with one simple fact that even you would not be able to twist. The THD of these speakers are among the highest SS ever measured, price aside. If you do not believe THD is audible, perhaps you should contact SS and have them take these measurements off. Apparently, they mean nothing, so why bother.

Jeff,

All insults aside, I can only say that I was surprised to hear such a clear opinions, both positive and negative from an audio magazine editor on certain products. My bad for taking you too seriously. I suppose one can see your comments as refreshing, at least you speak your mind. On the other hand, let me just guess that we will not see a Magico or Hansen review coming in anytime soon. You may have never heard them in the right circumstances, which I believe will be your own personal setup. With such attitude, what are the chances that will ever happen?
 
I would leave you with one simple fact that even you would not be able to twist. The THD of these speakers are among the highest SS ever measured, price aside.

Wrong on that one too. Just a quick glance through the list shows quite a few speakers that have higher distortion peaks and a much greater number of peaks. You're really grasping at straws now.

If you do not believe THD is audible, perhaps you should contact SS and have them take these measurements off. Apparently, they mean nothing, so why bother.

I know you are not really paying attention to what I say, but please don't twist my words around for your own benefit. I never stated distortion was not audible. I stated that between 2% and 4% distortion, measured at 90 db. at 2 meters in an anechoic chamber, is inaudible at normal listening levels and especially at 500 hz. I stated that higher distortion levels are less audible at lower frequencies than they are at higher frequencies. Please see the study quoted below for proof of that.

You have still provided absolutely no references to back up your claims that these speakers produce audible distortion. No one that has yet reviewed these speakers has ever stated this. Perhaps you should take your extensive audio knowledge and start your own review mag, instead of trashing the opinions of someone like Jeff who actually has the brains and the guts to do it.

Please do yourself a favor and read this study by Alan Lofft, former editor-in-chief of Sound and Vision:

How Much Distortion Can We Hear In Music: An Axiom Experimental Study

Let me make it easy on you. You can just read their conclusion below:

Axiom's tests of a wide range of male and female listeners of various ages with normal hearing showed that low-frequency distortion from a subwoofer or wide-range speaker with music signals is undetectable until it reaches gross levels approaching or exceeding the music playback levels. Only in the midrange does our hearing threshold for distortion detection become more acute. For detecting distortion at levels of less than 10%, the test frequencies had to be greater than 500 Hz. At 40 Hz, listeners accepted 100% distortion before they complained. The noise test tones had to reach 8,000 Hz and above before 1% distortion became audible, such is the masking effect of music. Anecdotal reports of listeners' ability to hear low frequency distortion with music programming are unsupported by the Axiom tests, at least until the distortion meets or exceeds the actual music playback level. These results indicate that the “where” of distortion—at what frequency it occurs—is at least as important as the “how much” or overall level of distortion.

By the way, this study utilized noise distortions, which would be much more audible than harmonic distortions that have a direct fundamental relationship to the frequencies of the music being played.

I will not be able to help you anymore.

Yes, you have been sooooo much help. :rolleyes:
 
We've been asking Hansen and Magico for reviews for two years now...

We will happily review their speakers if and when they make them available.

Lars Hansen once told me that I was "lucky that he even reads my magazine" so I doubt that will ever happen, and Magico is pretty tight with The Absolute Sound, so they probably don't want to take a chance that we would say something controversial about the speaker, so I doubt we'll see Magico here any time soon either.

And it's worth noting that when we do a speaker review, we make it a point to play them through a very wide range of amplifiers to try and find appropriate system synergies, as well as using about four different types of speaker cable.

We also make it a point to ask a manufacturer if there is a known combination of amplifier and cable that they have found good synergy with and start there if possible, figuring the mfr. has more experience with their product than we do. We will also try other combinations, but it's always good to start with what works.

Writing mega speaker reviews is a love/hate thing honestly. It's always exciting, because after over 30 years of being in this realm, it's cool to see what the best and brightest have done to push the envelope. It's hard because, when I write an article about a six figure component, I know I'm writing it for 50 people, because that's probably the size of the audience lining up to buy something like that, so I always wonder how much it's helping anyone.

And as we can see by this discussion already, everyone is quite polarized in their thinking.

But I have changed my mind over the years on a number of things, so nothing's in stone.

So I guess the long answer is "don't hold your breath"
 
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I finally figured out why there is so much of a disconnect with this thread.

JoeMarvin is talking about Majico, which is the Home Theater brand at WalMart and frankly I was not surprised at the distortion in Majico brand, it kind of comes with the territory at Walmart.:D
http://www.peopleofwalmart.com/
 
JoeMarvin is talking about Majico, which is the Home Theater brand at WalMart and frankly I was not surprised at the distortion in Majico brand, it kind of comes with the territory at Walmart.

Classic Post!!!
 
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