Considering a VPI Aries 3/Ayre p-5xe/Dynavector

I am considering the following combo - any thoughts?

VPI Aries 3, Ayre p-5xe phono using the balanced inputs, Dynavector XX-2 MkII, Nordost Tyr cables, roughly $10K.

Any thoughts? Anyone using the Ayre or the Dynavector?

sounds good spectral, as a Aries III owner for the past couple years I'm very satisfied.

now...we just need to get this thread moved to the "Analog" section where it belongs.

spectral said:

I am considering the following combo - any thoughts?

VPI Aries 3, Ayre p-5xe phono using the balanced inputs, Dynavector XX-2 MkII, Nordost Tyr cables, roughly $10K.

Any thoughts? Anyone using the Ayre or the Dynavector?

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The Aries 3 is a wonderful table and I believe you will be very happy with it. My experience with the Aries has only been through my dealer which has a Dynavector arm, but I have spent alot of time there listening to his setup and have always enjoyed what I heard. Which arm are you considering? Also, my dealer's setup is running on an all Ayre system including the P-5xe. I am a huge fan of Ayre and believe you will be extremely happy with the P-5xe no matter which table you end up with. Is the rest of your system completly balanced? Ayre products sound good either way in my experience, but do offer another level when running fully balanced. Have fun!!!

Glen

P.S.
Are there other tables you are considering or have you settled on this one?

FOUNTAIN said:

Which arm are you considering? Also, my dealer's setup is running on an all Ayre system including the P-5xe. I am a huge fan of Ayre and believe you will be extremely happy with the P-5xe no matter which table you end up with. Is the rest of your system completly balanced? Ayre products sound good either way in my experience, but do offer another level when running fully balanced. Have fun!!!

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I am going to go with the JWM 10i arm with the Valhalla wiring (thus the choice of Tyr DIN-to-XLR interconnects - same "cloth"), with the XLR output from the Ayre to my Spectral preamp with unknown as of yet interconnect for that route. But no, my system is not balanced otherwise.

Thanks for the feedback.

VPI is in my future upgrade list. I have looked over many tables and as nice as many are I think VPI is the only manufacture to match the build quality and timeless look of my McIntosh equipment. although for now my HIFI funds are more than spent. any suggestions Twich54 on model line where is the sweet spot?

Considering your Spectral stuff is so fast, clean and neutral, I'm guessing you will either find the VPI/Ayre combination perfect or too much of a good thing (i.e. forward and thin) The Dynavector cart is great.

If there is any way you can try the Ayre phono in your system before you buy, I'd highly suggest it. The VPI is definitely on the forward side too. Not a full bodied analog sound by any stretch of the imagination. A lot of the guys with more tubey systems love it, but in an all solid state system like yours, especially considering you listen to a lot of classical....

tonepub said:

Considering your Spectral stuff is so fast, clean and neutral, I'm guessing you will either find the VPI/Ayre combination perfect or too much of a good thing (i.e. forward and thin) The Dynavector cart is great.

If there is any way you can try the Ayre phono in your system before you buy, I'd highly suggest it. The VPI is definitely on the forward side too. Not a full bodied analog sound by any stretch of the imagination. A lot of the guys with more tubey systems love it, but in an all solid state system like yours, especially considering you listen to a lot of classical....

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Thank you... I can't audition the Ayre but I can return it within 7 days for a full refund. I have listened to the very new battery-operated Narga BPS and I have to admit it sounded really nice with a Clearaudio Stradivari. But it's using step-up xformers and an active RIAA network, and I am not a fan of transformers at all, not to mention I really want to amplify any cartridge as they were meant to - balanced. The AQVOX is also on my short list but I cannot audition or return that. I am not a fan of anything Clearaudio either, although it appears their latest round of cartridges are different from previous ones, but still not my cup of cake.

I am hoping the combo I selected to perform as close to neutral as the rest of the system, but we will see. I certainly appreciate your insight.

FISH_MAN said:

I have looked over many tables and as nice as many are I think VPI is the only manufacture to match the build quality and timeless look of my McIntosh equipment.

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While I'm very happy with my VPI to me if I had the funds a SME table would be the cats arse.

although for now my HIFI funds are more than spent. any suggestions Twich54 on model line where is the sweet spot?

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Steve, if your talking VPI, then I feel the Aries III or Super Scoutmaster if your wallet will permit.

spectral said:

I really want to amplify any cartridge as they were meant to - balanced. The AQVOX is also on my short list but I cannot audition or return that. I am not a fan of anything Clearaudio either, although it appears their latest round of cartridges are different from previous ones, but still not my cup of cake.

I am hoping the combo I selected to perform as close to neutral as the rest of the system, but we will see. I certainly appreciate your insight.

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There are only a small handful of phono preamps that accept a balanced input...

I guess I wouldn't limit myself to any particular circuit design here. Considering Nagra's expertise in balanced equipment and mic preamp designs, if they felt it was ok to use a transformer, I can live with it.

Other Balanced Phono pre's that I know of are;

ASR Basis Exclusive
Aesthetix IO
BAT VK-10 (and SE version)

I had the Aqvox for a long time and it is exceptional for the money. Very neutral tonally and the balanced in is slightly quieter than when you use it in SE mode.

Acoustic Sounds won't let you return if you don't like it? That seems odd...

tonepub said:

I guess I wouldn't limit myself to any particular circuit design here. Considering Nagra's expertise in balanced equipment and mic preamp designs, if they felt it was ok to use a transformer, I can live with it.

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I've never been a fan of step-up transformers, as I consider them a compromise at best. Here's an interesting article about all that on 6moons (scroll down to Step up devices): http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/stepup/primer.html

The BPS sounded very very similar to the tubed VPS that I A/B'd that day, and both offered a recessed midrange which lots of people will like, but not these ears. In addition, the overload limit on the BPS is 2.5mV - too low for MM (if one cares to pair it with such a cartridge). The active part is in the RIAA equalization so the entire gain is accomplished by the step-up transformer, which sounds too much of a compromise to me.

You need to find a sound that works for you.

A step up transformer by definition does not perform gain, so your circuit understanding is a little bit confused.

It's all a series of compromises, you just pick the ones you're willing to live with. The Spectral amps depend on the RC networks in the MIT cables to do their thing. That's a compromise too, but they make it work well.

Hope you find the winning combination.

tonepub said:

You need to find a sound that works for you.

A step up transformer by definition does not perform gain, so your circuit understanding is a little bit confused.

It's all a series of compromises, you just pick the ones you're willing to live with. The Spectral amps depend on the RC networks in the MIT cables to do their thing. That's a compromise too, but they make it work well.

Hope you find the winning combination.

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I don't think I agree with this...

a) step-up transformers are all about voltage gain, and in most cases (in phono amps) only partial (i.e. there is an active stage after it), and there are tons of examples out there, like the Graham Slee Elevator EXP (MC step-up xformer) with the Era Gold (MM active); after all, any transformer can be used in a reversed fashion to add gain to the input voltage, and you can go, for example, from 120V to 240V (at the expense of current) - this is standard physics.

b) Spectral amps do not feature the common output inductor nor the input choke, functions left to the networks in the MIT cables - if you look at it from a system perspective, all the expected parts are there, just in slightly different places.

pre preamp versus transformer

Actually they both provide gain. The transformer provides gain by passing the signal through a a long wire coil or magnetic field that raises the voltage. The pre preamp simply raises the voltage in the same way your preamp amplifies the voltage.
Both provide their own brand of coloration. Unless you are in love with your present preamp you should choose a preamp with enough gain for your cartridge.
If in love with a preamp that does not have enough gain for your mc cartridge,I suggest a high quality transformer. IMO you can only amplify a signal so much without also amplifying the noise and distortion.
For a different view(to put it mildly )check out my friend Raul over Audiogon.
Gregadd:afro:

Shelter 9000

Big fan of the VPI Aries series of TT. How about the Shelter 9000? It's fast, detailed, has full frequency response and bass. Triplanar might be a better arm.
Gregadd:afro:

Except the Triplanar arm is now $5400 and a Shelter 9000 is going up to $3450... Doesn't leave much left for a turntable.

The Triplanar doesn't have particularly good synergy on the VPI tables either.

I just love that arm.

tonepub said:

Except the Triplanar arm is now $5400 and a Shelter 9000 is going up to $3450... Doesn't leave much left for a turntable.

The Triplanar doesn't have particularly good synergy on the VPI tables either.

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Assuming he wanted to go that route, the VPI and Triplanar are good used buys. Maybe he could get a package price. new. He also has to squeeze a phono preamp in there. As a I found out tonearm height is important with that table and cart.
Personally I never liked the VPI arm. Just me. I have heard it sound very good.
It seems to me the VPI and Triplanar are very similar.
Most used VPI Aries are mounted with Vpi arm.

Gregadd:afro:

gregadd said:

Assuming he wanted to go that route, the VPI and Triplanar are good used buys. Maybe he could get a package price. new. He also has to squeeze a phono preamp in there. As a I found out tonearm height is important with that table and cart.
Personally I never liked the VPI arm. Just me. I have heard it sound very good.
It seems to me the VPI and Triplanar are very similar.
Most used VPI Aries are mounted with Vpi arm.

Gregadd:afro:

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There is no end to how much money one can spend on this stuff; I set out with a $10K budget and it all fits nicely as proposed, leaving actually about $500 for accessories. So I got a great deal from MusicDirect on the combo (sans Ayre) for $7000, but the goods won't be delivered for 6 weeks. I have a collection of about 300 virgin LPs from the 1980's, which I was collecting with the thinking that one day I would buy an analog rig... long time to wait...

I thnk you'll be very happy.

I was just kicking the can around. Did you remember to get your VPI 16.5 or other record cleaning machine? It is essential.
Gregadd
:afro:

gregadd said:

I was just kicking the can around. Did you remember to get your VPI 16.5 or other record cleaning machine? It is essential.
Gregadd
:afro:

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Good advice. Mine has allowed me to play records that I thought would never be listenable much less enjoyable. You will get your money's worth out of it when you are about to throw away lp's that have grunge in the groove and clean it on the 16.5 or something similar. Of course some are beyond saving, but it has definitely lowered the noise floor on many a vinyl for me.

Glen

I'll take that please.

"...leaving actually about $500 for accessories."

Might be able to get the VPI "package" for that. Check "elusive disc" also.
gregadd
:afro: