Turntable Upgrades/Tweaks - Copper Turntable Mats?

First noticed at the Bristol Hi-FI Show - a Technics with a copper turntable mat.

Also, just been surfing ebay USA and found one for sale - search for "copper platter mat". It weighs in at 1.86 Kg, costs $309, and is pictured on VPI and Denon decks.

Whilst it'd blow my VTA on my deck unless I physically raised the arm with washers, I thought I'd just bring it to attention, knowing what a difference to sound quality these things (platter material) in general can make.

If anyone has tried one, it'd be interesting to know what you think. If you haven't, well, at least you are aware of them now. If I ran a VPI I might be tempted...

Dammit - here's the link: http://cgi.ebay.com/TTMicroPlatter-1860-Gram-COPPER-PLATTER-MAT_W0QQitemZ230328861210QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_2?hash=item230328861210&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1205%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1307%7C301%3A1%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50

If anyone has any other turntable "tweaks" that brought about improvements, it'd be cool to hear about them. I am sure many would be interested.

The link says, "The TTMicroPlatter is designed to eliminate phase shifting ...". I wonder what phase shifting they are talking about; I can't figure out where/how it would take place.

The motor had better be able to handle the extra 4.1 lb. My VPI platter is 22lb; I'm not sure I would want to subject the motor to the extra weight.

Here's the website for that platter: http://www.ttweights.com/page/page/6597621.htm

and for the one on the Technics: http://www.puresound.info/id2.html

Bernard - I'm sure your motor would handle it - start up will be a little slower but from then on - fine. My recently upgraded Gyrodec handled the Orbe platter no problem - I checked it last week with a strobe too, and it's bang on. Amazed really, massive increase in weight (way over the 18% that the copper mat would make for your TT) and a motor that has been in use for 18 years and it is STILL bang on...

Copper has been used in some TT's platters (the Raven Acoustics AC TTs come to mind), but I'd be wary about putting my records on naked metal!

One could use a felt mat, I suppose, but that would presumably diminish the results.

I'm looking for a good "bang for the buck" mat. I'd be willing to pay up to $500. for one if it would make a noticeable improvement in sound quality.

My TT is a Scheu Analog Cello with RB 250 arm and Blue Note cart.

Satch

Satch said:

I'm looking for a good "bang for the buck" mat. I'd be willing to pay up to $500. for one if it would make a noticeable improvement in sound quality.

My TT is a Scheu Analog Cello with RB 250 arm and Blue Note cart.

Satch

Click to expand...

I'm not familiar with that turntable, but given your budget, an RB300 might be a better buy.

RichTeer said:

Copper has been used in some TT's platters (the Raven Acoustics AC TTs come to mind), but I'd be wary about putting my records on naked metal!

One could use a felt mat, I suppose, but that would presumably diminish the results.

Click to expand...

Especially if you use a clamp too - you force any "grit" into the record. You'd just need to keep the platter clean with your record brush.

Satch said:

I'm looking for a good "bang for the buck" mat. I'd be willing to pay up to $500. for one if it would make a noticeable improvement in sound quality.

My TT is a Scheu Analog Cello with RB 250 arm and Blue Note cart.

Satch

Click to expand...

You could e-mail and see if he'll let you "borrow" a demo mat if you pay for shipping or something.

That's a pretty TT: http://www.scheu-analog.de/en/cello.htm

Hey all - check out this bizarre Cantus tonearm: http://www.scheu-analog.de/gallery/cantus1.jpg

Off the cuff, here's a couple of sweet YouTube videos of Michell decks I just found. Not worth a separate thread - but I just thought I'd give 'em some advertising space

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jj80jep42oI&NR=1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2u1dURD0Sr4&feature=related

I just got a copper arm board for my Raven Two, hmmm

tonepub said:

I just got a copper arm board for my Raven Two, hmmm

Click to expand...

I'm not sure a rotating copper disc is something one would want on a TT. If there is any RF present, even in small amounts (like that generated by a router or a cell phone the rotating disc could generate a magnetic field and potentially create subtle signals in either e MC or MM cartridge...theoretically.

Hmmm - I suppose this thread is a little lost because I haven't really made it's point too clear.

The point is, TT construction is really heavily dependant on the materials used in their build. The fact is that a decent arm/cartridge will readily portray changes that you would never reasonably or rationally expect to hear.

Go buy the dodgy copper turntable mat. Go suspend your TT on some custom made spikes. Go put your TT on a different support. You should find that you can hear the difference between all these options. Even if logic says to your head that you shouldn't be able too.

I guess these analogue issues are becoming increasingly irrelevant over time. But maybe not - with the increased interest in vinyl these days. But while the press likes to run articles stating that is the case, it does at least have some backing in terms of available releases. In fact, there is more coming out on vinyl than there is on SACD - far more, as far as I can see.

There seems to be a lack of TT tweaking going on in MLOC land... maybe most users feel tweaks are a waste of time, or that DIY sucks, or experimentation isn't worth the hassle... or the reality that most do not listen to records in the year 2009. Whatever.

Don't get me wrong, I am not a Fremer disciple, but I did enjoy his Stereophile review of analogue recording methods in the last issue - in other words, record at 24/192, then apply RIAA equalisation in the digital domain. The results of that little escapade are in the next issue. I, for one, will read it

User211 said:

Hmmm - I suppose this thread is a little lost because I haven't really made it's point too clear.

Click to expand...

I thought its point was quite clear - here's one more thing you can try in search of the analog holy grail.

User211 said:

There seems to be a lack of TT tweaking going on in MLOC land... maybe most users feel tweaks are a waste of time, or that DIY sucks, or experimentation isn't worth the hassle... or the reality that most do not listen to records in the year 2009. Whatever.

Click to expand...

Is it not really the case that there is a lack of discussion about tweaking? I do indulge in a bit of tweaking, but bottom line is that at some point you have to put down the tools and listen to the music bacause that's what it's all about.

As much as I think analog is superior to digital, tweaking analog is the road to insanity when you consider VTA, tracking force, loading, etc. Also consider this:

The small signals from a cartridge are supposedly not enough for break-in of tonearm cables. I think it was Harry Weisfeld who suggested a Jerry-rig solution (it is not "jury-rig") where you disconnect the leads from the cartridge and by means of clips connect them to a tuner, while the other end of the cable is connected to a high level input on your preamp. Sounds a bit extreme; I have not done it.

RichTeer said:

Copper has been used in some TT's platters (the Raven Acoustics AC TTs come to mind), but I'd be wary about putting my records on naked metal!

.

Click to expand...

I would wonder about that as well

Interesting arm

Thought this arm you gave us a link to was cool. Satch has a Scheu.

Doug - out

User211,

Thanks for posting the link to the Scheu TT.

I bought it all set up from a member here and love it. jtwrace also sent me a record clamp (weight?) it's about 3 lbs. that he made. The bearing on this TT is the same as the model with the massive platter so the 3lbs shouldn't hurt that. The clamp makes a noticeable improvement in the sound, but I tend to break the thread more often when I use it. The thread this TT uses is is very thin and it's not easy for me to tie. I have massive callouses on my fingers from playing upright bass.

Any advice for me is most welcome...

Satch

TrumpetDoug - yeah - and it's the only TT company that I know that makes TTs for ladies

http://www.ladylikescheu.com/

Oh dear - I quite like it - should I worry?