Analogue front end upgrade priorities

I posted this question in another forum without any joy, so I though I'd try my fellow black pizza lovers here!

My current system consists of a Forsell Air Reference Turntable/arm, Lyra Parnassus cartridge, an ARC SP-9 Mk 2 preamp, a pair of PrimaLuna Prologue 7 monoblocks, and my most recent acqusition, a pair of MartinLogan Spires. My turntable and cartridge are about 15 years old (although for about 5 of those years they didn't get much use), and my SP-9 was bought used a couple of years ago (I have since had it serviced and retubed by ARC).

To take my system to the next level, I'd like to replace the cartridge with something like the Air Tight PC-1 Supreme, and the SP-9 with the Phono 7 and a Reference 3 (or whatever replaces these two when I can afford them!). The Parnassus sounds fine, but I can't help but wonder how much longer the suspension will last. If/when I buy the Reference 3 or Phono 7 my SP-9 will be performing the duties of the other box. That is, if I get the Phono 7 first I'll use the SP-9 as a line stage, and if I get the Reference 3 first I'll use the SP-9 as a phonostage.

In round numbers each of those components will cost about $10k, and I can't afford to buy more than say one per year. My question is: in which order should I perform these upgrades?

While the Prima luna amps are quite good (own a pair myself), I wouldn't say they are up to the task of a REF 3 or a PC-1, etc etc.

I'd consider having the Parnassus rebuilt into an Olympos or perhaps just going with a Skala. Having had both side by side for a while, the Skala is pretty amazing for 1/3 the price.

Also, there are some great deals on the BAT VK-5 SE phono pre floating around and perhaps an ARC LS-26 if you are in that mode..

You could probably get all three of these for 10k and get a huge jump from where you are now...

Just a thought!

I was thinking about the Air Tight PC-1 for a while, but ultimately the price put me off it... and a good deal came up elsewhere.

I think it's important to know where you are going, and try to keep things in balance. Hooking a REF3 in will blow that balance unless you plan on some really serious power amps further down the line.

You could get the Parnassus health checked by someone like the Expert Stylus Company over here. I'm sure they could replace the suspension if needed, and re-tip it. It will keep the bills low, and you'll still have an excellent cartridge. Some say they come back from there better than new.

If the choice is between cartridge/phonostage or cartridge/linestage first I'd replace the phonostage first. Have you considered a Dynavector XV-1S or a Benz Ruby or Ebony L as the cartridge choice (so many cartridges, so little money:music.

To my ears (others will differ) the closer to the source a component is the bigger its contribution to the final sound (speakers excluded) so get that Phono 7 and the cartridge of your choice and enjoy.

tonepub said:

While the Prima luna amps are quite good (own a pair myself), I wouldn't say they are up to the task of a REF 3 or a PC-1, etc etc.

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I couldn't agree with you more! But I only have so much money (even less now that I'm currently unemployed--so this is really pipedream stuff at the moment), and my ProLogue 7s were my most recent acquisition prior to my Spires. Once the front end is taken care of, I will of course replace them with something more in keeping with the rest of the system. I really fancy a pair of ARC Ref 210 mono blocks...

I'd consider having the Parnassus rebuilt into an Olympos or perhaps just going with a Skala. Having had both side by side for a while, the Skala is pretty amazing for 1/3 the price.

Also, there are some great deals on the BAT VK-5 SE phono pre floating around and perhaps an ARC LS-26 if you are in that mode..

You could probably get all three of these for 10k and get a huge jump from where you are now...

Just a thought!

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Very good thoughts indeed! And I have considered something along those lines (although I did promise to give you first refusal of my Parnassus should I decide to part with it), but I tend to prefer to make "big" jumps with my upgrades. And if I get to the level I'm proposing here, it'd most likely be my last upgrade (though we've all heard that before!) in that department.

I have a preference for buying new. I know it costs much more, but I like the thrill of being the first owner of an expensive toy.

risabet said:

If the choice is between cartridge/phonostage or cartridge/linestage first I'd replace the phonostage first. Have you considered a Dynavector XV-1S or a Benz Ruby or Ebony L as the cartridge choice (so many cartridges, so little money:music.

To my ears (others will differ) the closer to the source a component is the bigger its contribution to the final sound (speakers excluded) so get that Phono 7 and the cartridge of your choice and enjoy.

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I'm inclined to agree with you, although it's more like a choice between cartridge OR phono stage OR line stage. But I'm inclined to think that the line state will upgraded last. So I guess it's really a question of cartridge or phono stage.

User211 said:

I was thinking about the Air Tight PC-1 for a while, but ultimately the price put me off it... and a good deal came up elsewhere.

I think it's important to know where you are going, and try to keep things in balance. Hooking a REF3 in will blow that balance unless you plan on some really serious power amps further down the line.

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Absolutely. As I said in my reply to Jeff, a power amp upgrade would also be part of the "grand plan", as would (hopefully) a step up to the CLX!

You could get the Parnassus health checked by someone like the Expert Stylus Company over here. I'm sure they could replace the suspension if needed, and re-tip it. It will keep the bills low, and you'll still have an excellent cartridge. Some say they come back from there better than new.

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That's a good point. I might give that a thought...

risabet said:

To my ears (others will differ) the closer to the source a component is the bigger its contribution to the final sound (speakers excluded) so get that Phono 7 and the cartridge of your choice and enjoy.

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I concur with Robert on this one as well ....PH-7 and cartridge of choice....ahhhh, a slice of heaven !!

risabet said:

To my ears (others will differ) the closer to the source a component is the bigger its contribution to the final sound (speakers excluded) so get that Phono 7 and the cartridge of your choice and enjoy.

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What a polite way to say, "Garbage in ..... Garbage out". :bowdown:

I agree with risabet.

Look on audiogon for a PH-7, because a new phono stage is reported to be under development up in Lake Wobegon.

SundayNiagara said:

Look on audiogon for a PH-7, because a new phono stage is reported to be under development up in Lake Wobegon.

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Yeah, I heard rumblings of what I've dubbed the Phono Reference 2. And I've seen the Phono 7s on the 'Gon. Mighty tempting I must admit, though cash is too tight at present.

I've been leaning towards a new phono stage, so that's probably the way I'll go.

"I've been leaning towards a new phono stage, so that's probably the way I'll go. "

Smart move!

Hmm. Manley Steelhead could take care of both your preamp and phono amp tasks and it costs considerably less than $10K.

Rich, I did mention this before, but it does bear repeating: as cash is tight (something I identify with) you should replace the crappy volume control in your preamp with a DACT stepped attenuator - 200 bucks, from PartsConnexion. I was amazed at the improvement it made to my SP9 Mk2.

Also try some 7308 tubes in the SP9.

One could speculate that the Ref3 is also due for an upgrade.

Bernard said:

Rich, I did mention this before, but it does bear repeating: as cash is tight (something I identify with) you should replace the crappy volume control in your preamp with a DACT stepped attenuator - 200 bucks, from PartsConnexion. I was amazed at the improvement it made to my SP9 Mk2.

Also try some 7308 tubes in the SP9.

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I'll check out both those options; thanks!

SundayNiagara said:

One could speculate that the Ref3 is also due for an upgrade.

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Yeah, that thought had crossed my mind too...