ML Statements on the way! Need amp suggestions urgently!

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sashua

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I just scored a pair of ML Statements and want to drive them to the absolute best of their ability.

In this regard I need to biamp the stat and midrange towers and drive the bass stacks separately. A total then of 6 channels of monstrous amplification to be dealt out.

I was thinking of using ICE power on the bass stacks (which I will be running at 4 Ohms by the way). This will give me a nice clean and cool 1000 watts from either the Bel Canto or Rowland offerings.

For the towers I was considering two stereo amps as opposed to 4 monoblocks. I think that 4 giant monoblocks on my floor might be a bit OTT for my wife:D I am considering class A power in this case and have heard the BAT VK-600SE's, The Plinius Statements, The various Krell and Levinson offerings and a few others but since home auditions seem to be a thing of the past here on Long Island I am making a blind decision based on evaluations made at CES and other shows (something that is lame at best)and advice from folks like yourselves.

My system:
ML Statements for front
ML Prodigy's at rear for surround
BAT REX Preamp
Anthem Statement D1 for Surround
Shanling CD-300 for Digital
Clearaudio Master Solution w/Master TQ-1 arm for analog
EAR 834P Phono Preamp
Denon 3900 for SACD/DVD-Audio
Playstation 3 for Blu Ray
JVC RS-2 Projector
JVC RS-VP2 Scaler
Three Rows of D-Box 300 Series Motion Seating

O.K. - lots more but that's a fair idea of where I am and now I'd love to hear what the experienced among your ranks think that I can do to invest in amperage. Budget is flexible up to about $30,000 for these front 6 channels.

Thanks,
Russ
 
Thanks for that link. Should have searched first but who would have figured I'd be a month behind a similar situation with another local New Yorker. I thought Statements were a fairly rare animal!

I would still like to get some suggestions and carry on the thread here if possible. I am leaning towards a pair of the BAT VK-600SE's to bi-amp the towers. My Preamp is the BAT REX and I have always been a "hit and run" audio guy. By this I mean that I have always assembled components in my systems that were well reviewed and generally loved...but were not always the best synergistic match with each other.

This seems to be key.

Proper system matching seems to be as important as room tuning or power supply concerns when it comes to that undefinable "X-Factor" in making music sound right.

Someone that recommends a specific amp probably does so based upon their personal experiences with that amplifier but those experiences may be based on listening to how the amp drives horns or dynamic drivers. Maybe the advice is suddenly not so valid when it comes to driving omnis or bending wave radiators...or when paired with an alternate preamp of differing topology.

I like the advice that someone gave in the other thread about buying on A-gon and selling and then trying something else until you get it right. There are very few dealers of new equipment that have the capital to stock these megabuck amps AND have them available for loan to audition.

So....maybe I stick with BAT for the first go-around and see if proper system matching provides the keys to the kingdom? I can say that the REX is the finest preamp that I have ever heard and it has been AB'd with high end Musical Fidelity, CJ, ARC and Manley in my own system - so I am pretty confident it is the last stop on that train ride anyway. Maybe it will provide the keystone building block for a perfectly stunning system.
 
Well, since you are so happy with the Rex, I'd suggest, as you have already mentioned, that you continue to focus on a synergistic match. I can heartily agree with your idea of pairing in the VK-600SE's, easily my favorite big solid state amp. However, if I were you I'd be taking the opportunity to pair those big towers with a truely wonderful tube amp, again staying with BAT in the form of the big VK-150SE's. I've got a feeling that if you heard them on the stat panels you wouldn't look back.
 
sashua said:
Thanks for that link. Should have searched first but who would have figured I'd be a month behind a similar situation with another local New Yorker. I thought Statements were a fairly rare animal!

I would still like to get some suggestions and carry on the thread here if possible. I am leaning towards a pair of the BAT VK-600SE's to bi-amp the towers. My Preamp is the BAT REX and I have always been a "hit and run" audio guy. By this I mean that I have always assembled components in my systems that were well reviewed and generally loved...but were not always the best synergistic match with each other.

This seems to be key.

Proper system matching seems to be as important as room tuning or power supply concerns when it comes to that undefinable "X-Factor" in making music sound right.

Someone that recommends a specific amp probably does so based upon their personal experiences with that amplifier but those experiences may be based on listening to how the amp drives horns or dynamic drivers. Maybe the advice is suddenly not so valid when it comes to driving omnis or bending wave radiators...or when paired with an alternate preamp of differing topology.

I like the advice that someone gave in the other thread about buying on A-gon and selling and then trying something else until you get it right. There are very few dealers of new equipment that have the capital to stock these megabuck amps AND have them available for loan to audition.

So....maybe I stick with BAT for the first go-around and see if proper system matching provides the keys to the kingdom? I can say that the REX is the finest preamp that I have ever heard and it has been AB'd with high end Musical Fidelity, CJ, ARC and Manley in my own system - so I am pretty confident it is the last stop on that train ride anyway. Maybe it will provide the keystone building block for a perfectly stunning system.
Click to expand...


Congrats on your purchase! I think half of the world's best equipment is in NY.

I am not a big believer in preamp to amp synergy. Since you have the Rex, I think it should do well with any amp. (How does the Rex compare to CJ ACT2 or Lamm preamp if you tried it, by the way?) I am sure other people could argue this point, but I have listened to a dozen or so of excellent components, and I think the amp to speaker synergy is much more important. This is, of course, all experiential. What kind of sonic signature are you looking for, if any? Also, how well treated is your room? How big is the room? How loud do you play the stuff.

I do own the BAT 51SE and the CJ 350. I like the BAT 51/ CJ combo than the CJ preamp CT5 (virtually the old ACT), which is priced similarly to the 51 SE with the CJ 350. The CJ 350 is the best amp at its price point, to my ears. I could not hear the BAT 600SE because it does not fit on my shelf. If you love detail, Bryston may be the way to go. The Sanders are awesome monoblocks, but their midrange is a bit lean for my taste. You may have a different taste, though.

I do believe that to get the right sound you have to audition as much as you can in your room. There are too many suckers that buy something because their friend or the reviewer likes the stuff, and then drop the equipment at the first negative comment by someone who may have a different taste or heard the stuff in a bad room. (How many guys dump their girlfriend when someone says something negative about her?) That's why you have to buy used, audition, and sell what you don't like. Of course, if there is something new like the Rex or the Ayre monoblocks or Bryston 28 B, you may have to purchase new and resell at a small loss. Lamm monoblocks are going for some good deals right now.


Please keep us posted, and have fun!
 
Also, as stated in the other post, be sure your 120v wiring is up to the task. A min of two dedicated 20amp circuits, possibly three depending on your amp selection.

As far as amp selection, I like Tims idea for tubes on the panels. If SS Class "A" is your prefrence my first love is Plinius.

Good luck with your "dilemma"
 
First, Congrats on the new speakers.

As noted above, ensure a good power supply for the amps.

My recommendation would be to amplify as follows:

Sanders monoblocks x 2 for the panels.

Sanders Stereo for the mid-bass columns

Sanders Monoblock x2 for the Woofers

The Sanders are designed for ESL, and do very well per many owners on this forum. A splurge would be to go with Killowatt monoblocks for the panels.
Sanders offers free 30 day in-home-trials.

As for external crossovers, my recommendation is the DriveRack 4800, which I use on my Monoliths to great results.

Finally, top it off with the most capable modern preamp, the Denon AVP-A1HD. Upgrade the 3900 player to a 2930ci and feed Denonlink III to the AVP for the most pristine audio you'll ever hear.

The Audyssey room correction in the Denon AVP really works well (get a pro to use the pro installer kit to calibrate) and you'll be in sonic nirvana.

Enjoy
 
JonFo said:
As for external crossovers, my recommendation is the DriveRack 4800, which I use on my Monoliths to great results.
Click to expand...

The Driverack is a fine piece of gear but it's not in the same league as the Lake.

And although System Architect is very cool software it is really designed for large venues not home use. The Lake Controller is better suited for this.


3...2...1...
 
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ScottGardner said:
The Driverack is a fine piece of gear but it's not in the same league as the Lake.

And although System Architect is very cool software it is really designed for large venues not home use. The Lake Controller is better suited for this.


3...2...1...
Click to expand...

The Lake is a very nice piece, but the 4800 is quite well suited to home use.
I've not read to docs on the Lake in detail, but seems it's more complex to set up and lacks some of the incredible flexibility of the 4800.
Also, the lake does not have "autoWarmth" or similar features (same as Dynamic EQ in Audyssey equipped devices). This is highly valuable in a home setting.

Spec wise, they are in the same league, and they both are IIR filter based.

System Architect has many large config features, but is still incredibly easy to use for my purposes.


But as noted, the Statement comes with its own active crossover. So this is only for those ultimate tweakers :cool:
 
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JonFo said:
Also, the lake does not have "autoWarmth" or similar features (same as Dynamic EQ in Audyssey equipped devices). This is highly valuable in a home setting.
Click to expand...

Here we go... Jonathan, this could turn into a large debate maybe we should take it outside... er... to another thread?:D Check the PM I sent you.


Actually other than 'autoWarmth" the UberRack is limited to full band compression. And phase problems are introduced by autoWarmth's subharmonic synthesis. In fact most if not all (from every manufacturer) PEQ's and GEQ's introduce phase problems.

IIRC the UberRack does have channel delays that can be used for speaker alignment but there is no phase adjustment or auto alignment function which IMO is more valuable than autoWarmth. The lake allows much more flexibility in this area (you can have many seperate dynamic EQ curves) and their (Lake's) phase correction capabilities are legendary.

Their filters including PEQs are actually quite different than standard filters. You might want to take a closer look. Checkout their Linear Phase Crossovers, Raised Cosine Equalization and Mesa EQ™ asymmetrical filters.

Here's where I really get in trouble: Even the lowly Behringer has pretty impressive phase correction and alignment capabilities.

System Architect has many large config features, but is still incredibly easy to use for my purposes.
Click to expand...

Custom panels can make it even easier to use. However take a look at the Lake controller:

http://www.dolby.com/professional/live_sound/products/lake_controller.html

Many of System Architect features were "derived" from that piece.

Also since the UberRack uses the proprietary HiQnet protocol (that HarmanPro holds close to their chest) it is not supported by Smaart Live, whereas the Lake is. In fact it is highly integrated.





Again this is only for those ultimate tweakers :cool:
 
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Well I'm glad to see that this thread grew a pair of legs.

To start things off here, I am building a home theater onto my house with the help of Rives audio and the dimensions will depend on my needs - but it will be a big room with 4 rows of seating and lots of dedicated 20 amp circuits ;)

As far as the amps are concerned, I love tubes but the REX is a tube monster and tube amps might just be overkill in this case. Also, the Statements can dip down to 2 Ohms from what I understand and to buy a powerful enough tube amp with the necessary headroom and current swing (Siegfrieds, Arc 610T's, etc.) I would be in tube biasing and replacing Hell :devil:.... if my guess is correct. If I were to do this though, I would be very tempted to buy a pair of Rogue Zeus amps - WOW!

I have heard that the Sanders amps are good and I may try out a pair but I am guessing that they are just not quite in the same league as some of the other designs I am oggling. The BAT's, Krells, Pass and Plinius designs seem to be standing out at the moment. For reasons of synergy, the BAT VK-600SE's seem like the answer but at only 300 Watts into 8 Ohms, would I really be pushing enough into the 6 Ohm Statements to cover all eventualities? I don't want to clip them - ever!

And for those bass stacks. I have heard that the ICE and class D designs are very flat and lifeless, albeit with plenty of power to spare. Has anyone got a real line on that claim - personal experiences maybe?

By the way David, I have no experience with the CJ Act 2 but I thought the REX made the LAMM pre sound very romantic and lacking a sense of urgency. The REX is something else man...I can't even begin to praise it fairly enough.

-Russ
 
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