Tube Dampers?

I've recently gotten into tube rolling with my Modwright SWL 9.0 Signature, and am amazed by the vastly different sonic signature with different 5AR4 rectifier tubes (I haven't noticed as much variation between different 5687 output tubes). My favorite 5AR4 thus far is a NOS Mullard, providing relatively tight bass, gorgeous midrange, and ever-so-slightly rolled off top-end, yielding a very musical presentation. Unfortunately, the bass is still not quite as detailed as I get with SS. I therefore tried a Ruby 5AR4 (which Dan now uses as the stock rectifier), which I found to be very detailed, but a bit too bright in the upper midrange and treble, thus fatiguing. A "golden eared" audiophile gave me one of those red/orange ring tube dampers to try with the Ruby, and it slightly improved the tone, but not enough for my ears.

So, my question... has anybody here ever found it worthwhile to use tube dampers, and would something like Herbies Tube Dampers... http://herbiesaudiolab.home.att.net/ be more effective than the plain-jane rings?

sleepysurf said:

So, my question... has anybody here ever found it worthwhile to use tube dampers, and would something like Herbies Tube Dampers... http://herbiesaudiolab.home.att.net/ be more effective than the plain-jane rings?

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Somewhere on this site, I posted about these. I HIGHLY recommend Herbies tube dampers. Steve is an excellent guy as well. For those of you that play electric guitar, they work really well for them as well. So well, that a VERY famous guitar player uses them....he has long hair

sleepysurf said:

My favorite 5AR4 thus far is a NOS Mullard, providing relatively tight bass, gorgeous midrange, and ever-so-slightly rolled off top-end, yielding a very musical presentation. Unfortunately, the bass is still not quite as detailed as I get with SS. I therefore tried a Ruby 5AR4 (which Dan now uses as the stock rectifier), which I found to be very detailed, but a bit too bright in the upper midrange and treble, thus fatiguing.

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The Ruby will sound that way for a bit but will calm down nicely in my experience.

I recently compared the Ruby in my external PS to an Amperex branded "Mullard". I sort of agree with your take on the Mullard sound. Bass is not tight at all with lower bass notes getting completely lost in the muddle. Mids were nice. High were definitely rolled off making any high end music seem very far back in the sound stage. To me this is not musical, it is taking away the music that is supposed to be there - just my opinion.

For tube dampners, Herbie's products perform very well. I like them very much on my 5687's and 12AX7's. Remember dampners help with the glass ringing and will not help with any issues internal to the tube.

With the Herbies try one or two per tube to see which you like best.

BTW, I have not tried them on the Ruby yet.

Dan

DTB300 said:

The Ruby will sound that way for a bit but will calm down nicely in my experience...

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Hmmm, interesting! Tube "break-in"??? I'll give it another whirl and see what happens. I also just received a TAD 5AR4, which upon first listening, seems to lie in between the Mullard and Ruby. Will do some extended listening with it later this week. Amazing how tube rolling +/- dampers adds yet another permutation to the audio equation!

sleepysurf said:

Hmmm, interesting! Tube "break-in"??? I'll give it another whirl and see what happens. I also just received a TAD 5AR4, which upon first listening, seems to lie in between the Mullard and Ruby. Will do some extended listening with it later this week. Amazing how tube rolling +/- dampers adds yet another permutation to the audio equation!

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I have heard the change with the Ruby and Tung Sols that came with my setup. Very bright to start with but have settled down significantly.

I have also tried many 5687's and 7044's and have heard many differences between all of them.

Give the Herbie's a try. Steve offers a return if you do not like them.

There are three pads per dampener. Use one and see what you think, and then if you try two on a tube make a pattern where the three of one sit in the middle of the three of the other ring. This forms a ring of 6 pads equally around the tube. I have preferred two per tube for my tastes.

DTB300 said:

I have heard the change with the Ruby and Tung Sols that came with my setup. Very bright to start with but have settled down significantly.

I have also tried many 5687's and 7044's and have heard many differences between all of them.

Give the Herbie's a try. Steve offers a return if you do not like them.

There are three pads per dampener. Use one and see what you think, and then if you try two on a tube make a pattern where the three of one sit in the middle of the three of the other ring. This forms a ring of 6 pads equally around the tube. I have preferred two per tube for my tastes.

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I use the Herbie's on all the small signal tubes in my system and they definitley improve the sound. Be careful as IMO one CAN overdamp the sound and rob it of life, at least on signal tubes. I will be adding them to the output tubes in the near future.

risabet said:

I use the Herbie's on all the small signal tubes in my system and they definitley improve the sound. Be careful as IMO one CAN overdamp the sound and rob it of life, at least on signal tubes. I will be adding them to the output tubes in the near future.

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Herbie's are a great product at a great price. For sound quality, one just needs to listen and determine for themselves the affects positive or negative for one of more dampeners - as with anything in this hobby.

That Amperex 5AR4 I tried sure did rob the life out of the music - and that was without a dampener on it.

My favorite tubes in the ModWright SWLP 9.0 Sig Edition are 5687WB Tungsol Branded Raytheon Kuhl-Tubes. I use Mullards in the SWLP and ModWright 9100ES power supplies. My bud Norm liked MU6900's (same as Bendix 6900) in his SWL. I like them in my 9100, but don't care for them in the SWL/SWLP.

Have you tried any metal based 5AR4's? They are pricey, but are said to have better bass.

I use Herbies Dampers on my SWLP and 9100, but not on the rectifier tubes.

SCompRacer said:

Have you tried any metal based 5AR4's? They are pricey, but are said to have better bass....

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Not that much more than the early fat base Mullards, if carefully purchased. I've found them to be a significant improvement to the Mullard in the LS36.5.

...Norm liked MU6900's (same as Bendix 6900) in his SWL. I like them in my 9100....

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Got some 6900's coming for my Modwright 3910. I'm anxious to hear them.

RUR said:

Not that much more than the early fat base Mullards, if carefully purchased. I've found them to be a significant improvement to the Mullard...

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I'm not willing to gamble $200+ just to find out! However, if I were to stumble upon a cheaper one locally, I'd certainly give it a whirl!

sleepysurf said:

I'm not willing to gamble $200+ just to find out! However, if I were to stumble upon a cheaper one locally, I'd certainly give it a whirl!

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Check your PM's.

Tube dampers

Can someone explain the physics of tube dampers to me?
How do they work?
It seems as though there is a hint of snake oil behind this.

marlin said:

Can someone explain the physics of tube dampers to me?
How do they work?
It seems as though there is a hint of snake oil behind this.

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No snake oil at all. Vibration is an issue that we deal with in our audio systems all the time, whether it be taming unwanted cabinet vibrations in our speakers to absorbing or reflecting vibrations off the walls of our listening rooms to damping component chassis vibrations or isolating source components. Microphonic vibrations in tubes are a known, documented and measurable source of distortion. The idea of damping or changing the resonant frequency of a tube to a subsonic level is the goal of any tube dampening device. If you can keep the glass from ringing and the filament from oscillating you can remove distortion that is likely getting further amplified upstream.

Not an expert on this by any means, but as I understand it, the dampeners only work on the glass "ringing" and has no effect on the internal parts. But the internal parts will impart their affect on the glass which the dampeners help with.

Like anything else in this hobby there are people who believe and those who do not, so try them yourself and see if you like the differences. Herbies are a great place to start and try as their products are not "audiophool" priced, and IMO they work as advertised. Herbies also offers return of their product if you do not think they help out your setup.

All tubes are microphonic. As the owner of 2 full stack guitar amps, I can tell ya that some tubes don't give a damn and some really do. My amps are a Soldano SLO-100 and a vintage 80's Marshall JCM 800 SuperLead.

I have never used tube dampners -- I just find tubes that can take the abuse of being placed on a rickety stage or concrete one equally well and not crap-out on me. Smooth sound is also a major factor. If I ever buy tube amps for my HiFi, I'll be a tube rolling junkie until I find my ideal valves...

I swear by the Electro-Harmonix power tubes in guitar amps. Tough as nails and sound sweet as hell. Added bonus: They throw off a wicked blue light when loaded up real hard with low frequency bar chords (fifths, thirds, and what-nots).

:rocker: :rocker: :rocker:

~VDR

Has anyone compared Herbie's products to the rubber "O" rings that are also used for damping?

Bernard, I haven't compared them but I use 'Silicone' based (high heat resistence) "O"-rings with what I consider excellent results at Min. exspense.

Bernard said:

Has anyone compared Herbie's products to the rubber "O" rings that are also used for damping?

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I have and IMO there is no comparison. The Herbie's seem to damp vibration more linearly, over a broader range of frequencies, for lack of a better description, leading to greater increases in clarity over a wider frequency range than I heard with the O-rings. As always YMMV.

I am pretty sure HFN over here did some testing on tube dampers and found no measurable difference with them applied/not applied. To be honest I wasn't expecting that result.

I tried some Pearl Tube Coolers (not dampers - they were made from metal) once on the 6550 valves in a Lumley ST70. No audible difference. Absolutely none. The heat dissipation may improve tube life, however.

Here's a link to a HiFi+ review of the EAT Cool Dampers, which I've also seen advertised. The reviewer here sings their praises... http://www.euroaudioteam.com/pdfs/eat_hfp_1205_4web.pdf

I've been experimenting (a lot) with ring dampers on both the Modwrights rectifier and signal tubes. Still not entirely sure whether they make any substantial difference. Frankly, I've found my room acoustic tweaks have a more clearcut effect, as does simply swapping different vintages/brands of rectifier tubes. Thanks to member RUR, I have a metal-based Philips 5AR4 on the way for a demo. Looking forward to hearing whether the improvement is worth $200+. I love this hobby!