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twich54

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I know there is a fairly good number of analog guys on this forum besides
Tim (Mitt) and myself, so I'm curious as to a couple of things:

1) VTA, do you "set it and forget it" or constantly tweek ? I myself set to 180 gram record and leave it.

2) Azimuth set up, by sight with mirror or test record and voltmeter ? I use mirror and my eyes.

3) Vacuum or clean by hand ? I use a VPI 16.5 along with Decca 2+2 brush

4) Any other "secrets" you wanna share ? !!
 
Last edited:
I'm a Wanna Be...

Dave,

I am very interested in this tread as I used to be a low-end analog person and now I'm a wanna be high-end analog person. :) I remember preening and brushing my record LP's... Though never high-end I enjoyed analog. Sadly, My last TT was a MGA 600 series model and I sold it long ago, much to my shame and regret... :(

Your high-end care and management of analog type stuff is fasinating to me and is in fact a whole new world for me to rediscover. Planning to impliment analog once again someday in my future in my exclusive audio system. Lord knows I've posted enough TT photos... I've been drooling for years about what you currently enjoy. As you can tell, I am a bit enveyous but in a good way about this analog aspect of our wonderful hobby. :D
 
Analog ritual

1. VTA is a PITA and I just set it and forget it. Even if I had an arm where it was easily adjustable I wouldn't adjust it for each album. I'd rather spend the time LISTENING to the music.

2. Azimuth is non-adjustable on the Ittok so it isn't an issue. IME most competently designed cartridges are pretty close as are most arms. I just don't worry about it.

3. Vacuum with a Nitty Gritty. You just can't get them clean enough otherwise.

4. Placement is really important. With suspended tables like the LP12 a light/rigid table or stand is imperative. If possible listen w/o the dustcover. Try to place the table in a bass null point. You can find them by walking around with music playing and listening for the least bass output.
 
risabet said:
1. VTA is a PITA and I just set it and forget it. Even if I had an arm where it was easily adjustable I wouldn't adjust it for each album. I'd rather spend the time LISTENING to the music.

2. Azimuth is non-adjustable on the Ittok so it isn't an issue. IME most competently designed cartridges are pretty close as are most arms. I just don't worry about it.

3. Vacuum with a Nitty Gritty. You just can't get them clean enough otherwise.

4. Placement is really important. With suspended tables like the LP12 a light/rigid table or stand is imperative. If possible listen w/o the dustcover. Try to place the table in a bass null point. You can find them by walking around with music playing and listening for the least bass output.

Hola Chicos...I have a LP12 with a Magnepan Unipivot carbon fiber tonearm. I use a Sumiko SSS cartridge with saphire cantiliver. One thing that I like very much with this tonearm is that you can adjust the VTA while playing a disc, and to my ears, there is a point where the image snaps into a huge nice 3 dimensional sound, and the record noise drops drasticlly...I tuned each record to my ears liking. I also use a 16.5 VPI to clean my records...I use a solution of 75% destilated watter and 25% alcohol isopropílico (Spanish) and a few drops of Agepon (film develope agent) from Agfa, for the tension surfase relieve agent, and some mild detergent...in other words, to spread all the cleaning fluid into the record grooves...and with the aid of the special VPI brush, scrub and clean the record grooves before playing...and I use only once a day that record...never played the same record twice a day!...the bass that I get from this LP is sooo great that I don´t need a sub with my CLS IIz. I also use a very hard wood table made of (TECA) with 3" thick under my turtable...I just love wood sound. I use Mping discs (I know that I am going to be nailled here) and the overall sound is very nice, that I forget that I am in my room, and my mind goes to the place of where the recording was made...happy listening,
Roberto.
 
Great Thread Dave!

1. I generally set VTA for 180gm thickness, but occassionally play with VTA just to see if I notice a difference on thinner or thicker albums. Very easy thing to do on my JMW 10.5 while the music is playing via the calibrated markings on the VTA tower.

2. I adjusted azimuth with a mirror and eyeball when I installed my Grado Statement and have not touched it since.

3. Record cleaning is something of a ritual for me. I start with a hand wash and rinse with Disc Doctor cleaning formula and the Disc Doctor brushes, followed by a rinse with filtered water. I let the albums air dry, then take them to my VPI 16.5 for a good secondary cleaning and vacuuming. I always mark the jacket once I have completed this ritual with a little green paper dot (sticky back) that you can get on rolls by the hundreds at any Office Depot or similar store, then I always know if the album has been cleaned this way or not.

4. Before I play any album I use my Decca 2+2 dry brush, or if I notice any sort of smudge or anything I use a very low strength version of the Disc Doctor solution and my old Discwasher brush, followed by the Decca brush. We get a lot of static here in Colorado so I always Zerostat each side before I touch the stylus down as well.

5. If the album has a cheap paper sleeve I replace it with a good poly-lined sleeve I get from Music Direct. All of my albums have plastic outer sleeves on them as well.
 
Robin - I think one thing you may notice with us analog nuts is that when you remove the last two letters "og" is spells what alot of us are about........ anal ! I think it IS part of the vinyl experience !

Risabt - Azimuth, I agree most of todays are arms are very good, yet it is critical to be as close as possible in order to eliminate cross channel modulation / distortion.

Roberto - Buenos noches amigo, I have also heard from others as to the "ahhhhh" factor when you've hit the VTA spot on. Also I like your homemade recipe for your cleaning fluid, buddy of mine uses the same formula except he uses the Kodak agent instead of the Agfa.

Tim - The ease of adj. on your VPI 10.5 arm sounds like heaven. I'll give you a call before our Sat confrence call with Tom, I want to discuss VPI tables, I may have "Joeyitis" disease !

Also, I like your idea on marking your record sleaves to show when they have been thouroughly cleaned !
 
twich54 said:
Risabt - Azimuth, I agree most of todays are arms are very good, yet it is critical to be as close as possible in order to eliminate cross channel modulation / distortion.

I agree, the trade off occurs in using shims to adjust it on arms on which it is not adjustable. The trade off in coupling is worse IMO.
 
Stylus treatment anyone ????

So, do you Last / Stylast treat your stylus or not ? I've read someplace that there may be issues with the stuff working it's way up ones cantilever and doing more harm than good ?? !! I tend to use the product in a rather judicious / spairingly ( how's that for a BS phrase !!) manner.
 
No, never have used the stuff. Too lazy to do that every time and why risk it.
 
twich54 said:
So, do you Last / Stylast treat your stylus or not ? I've read someplace that there may be issues with the stuff working it's way up ones cantilever and doing more harm than good ?? !! I tend to use the product in a rather judicious / spairingly ( how's that for a BS phrase !!) manner.
I don't do any treatments, but do occasionally brush the stylus with an old Discwasher stylus brush. Always makes me nervous to do so, so I have been seriously thinking about the Zerodust product that has a gel patch you just lower the stylus into and then raise it back out of. Had a very favorable review from Mr. Michael Fremmer in his Stereophile column.... $69.99 at Music Direct and Acoustic Sounds.
 

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roberto said:
Hola Chicos...I have a LP12 with a Magnepan Unipivot carbon fiber tonearm. I use a Sumiko SSS cartridge with saphire cantiliver. One thing that I like very much with this tonearm is that you can adjust the VTA while playing a disc, and to my ears, there is a point where the image snaps into a huge nice 3 dimensional sound, and the record noise drops drasticlly...I tuned each record to my ears liking. I also use a 16.5 VPI to clean my records...I use a solution of 75% destilated watter and 25% alcohol isopropílico (Spanish) and a few drops of Agepon (film develope agent) from Agfa, for the tension surfase relieve agent, and some mild detergent...in other words, to spread all the cleaning fluid into the record grooves...and with the aid of the special VPI brush, scrub and clean the record grooves before playing...and I use only once a day that record...never played the same record twice a day!...the bass that I get from this LP is sooo great that I don´t need a sub with my CLS IIz. I also use a very hard wood table made of (TECA) with 3" thick under my turtable...I just love wood sound. I use Mping discs (I know that I am going to be nailled here) and the overall sound is very nice, that I forget that I am in my room, and my mind goes to the place of where the recording was made...happy listening,
Roberto.
Hola Roberto my good friend. Wood table, Mping disc's? Yes, I understand this magic approach - still need to try it under my amp one of these days. Just wanted to add that like you, I will only play an album once in any given day. I read an article once about the tremendous localized force and temperature at the tip of the stylus as it crashes around in the groove walls to the point where there is deformation of the vinyl at the contact point. The recommendation of this author was to give your vinyl time to relax back to it's original intended configuration after each playing for at least a day.

All the more reason to buy more vinyl!
 
MiTT said:
Hola Roberto my good friend. Wood table, Mping disc's? Yes, I understand this magic approach - still need to try it under my amp one of these days. Just wanted to add that like you, I will only play an album once in any given day. I read an article once about the tremendous localized force and temperature at the tip of the stylus as it crashes around in the groove walls to the point where there is deformation of the vinyl at the contact point. The recommendation of this author was to give your vinyl time to relax back to it's original intended configuration after each playing for at least a day.

All the more reason to buy more vinyl!

The 24 hour rule is among the silliest bits of folklore surrounding vinyl playback since anything said by Peter Belt. I and many others have played tracks numerous times with no loss of fidelity. Vinyl relaxes on the timescale on which it is deformed. Though I haven't done the calculations (Calculus was a long time ago! Luckily!) the stylus is on any one spot for a fraction of a second. Vinyl recovery is on the same time scale. See the thread at AA re: this topic

Vinyl Heating

PS- I totally agree with buying more vinyl!
 
MiTT said:
All the more reason to buy more vinyl!

Tim, did you get the News release from Acoustic Sounds ? Check out the release of Jethro Tull's "Aqualung" this Dec. Interesting jacket / sleeve on it !
 
twich54 said:
Tim, did you get the News release from Acoustic Sounds ? Check out the release of Jethro Tull's "Aqualung" this Dec. Interesting jacket / sleeve on it !

Yeah Dave, saw that, and right next to it was the new Dianna Krall and above it the Alison Krause Live album. So much new vinyl, so little time.

Guess it's time to start the Christmas list!
 
risabet said:
The 24 hour rule is among the silliest bits of folklore surrounding vinyl playback since anything said by Peter Belt. I and many others have played tracks numerous times with no loss of fidelity. Vinyl relaxes on the timescale on which it is deformed. Though I haven't done the calculations (Calculus was a long time ago! Luckily!) the stylus is on any one spot for a fraction of a second. Vinyl recovery is on the same time scale. See the thread at AA re: this topic

Vinyl Heating

PS- I totally agree with buying more vinyl!
Hola Risabet...well, I personal believe that it is better to wait some time before playing again the same disc. At the formula, there are some assumed values, and it is better not to assume, because if you assume, it will make an ass-u-me...the temperature of the tip is so high that it is why only diamond material, the hardest thing on mother earth, works againts the soft vinyl..and last more than any other material...vinyl is soft, so I rather wait...the records that I had played more often are with more noise than the others...even using "last" or similar product. Also, in my personal experience, the albums that I had played the same day are the ones that are with the noise and worst wear. It is o.k. for you to think that we should not wait those 24 hours of rest...but I love my records and I better play safe...perhaps my system is too old that makes or produce more record wear...and the new tonearms with new cartridges produce less record wear...the good thing is...Thanks God there is vinyl!..happy listening,
Roberto.
 
twich54 said:
I know there is a fairly good number of analog guys on this forum besides
Tim (Mitt) and myself, so I'm curious as to a couple of things:

1) VTA, do you "set it and forget it" or constantly tweek ? I myself set to 180 gram record and leave it.

2) Azimuth set up, by sight with mirror or test record and voltmeter ? I use mirror and my eyes.

3) Vacuum or clean by hand ? I use a VPI 16.5 along with Decca 2+2 brush

4) Any other "secrets" you wanna share ? !!

HI twitch,
Great thread. It appears that all the replies are by vinyl vets. It's very interesting to see how each of us has come up with solutions. It was mentioned that we must be anal. I agree. Vinyl is an execise in detail.

to your list:
1) VTA, one of my favorite subjects. First, it is important to get it right. Second, on most tone arms, even very expensive ones, it is virtually impossible to set the VTA accurately. Third, it is very noticible when you get it right. Forth, the most extreme stylus shape is the easiest to hear the snap. I have two records that I use specifically for the VTA calibration. Glen Gould would never have guessed!! On my ET-2 arm, the VTA adjustment is accurate, repeatable and easy. I have come to the realization that being able to easily adjust the VTA while the record is playing is THE most important feature an arm can have. The VTA snaps into focus. It takes very little movement to go from too little adjustment to too much. For that reason an well engineered VTA adjustment is essential.

I do not adjust VTA for every record. That's the path to insanity. I adjust the VTA every couple of months because I know my systems habits.

2) Azimuth is also important. I use an oscilloscope and monitor the phase angles with a Shure test record mono track.

3) A record cleaning machine is the only way to go. I have a VPI 17. Try to get as many automated features as you can. It is very important to expose the record to few dangers and as little handling as possible.

I hand clean the record and stylus prior to every playing. I use Sty Last and I Last ALL my records. I machine clean maybe every 10 playings.

Sparky
 
Sparky, Good evening, I too have noticed on the rare occasion that I make an adj to VTA as to benefits, trouble is my existing TT is not the most user freindly one to do it on. That will be changing soon for I have ordered a VPI Aries 3 with the 10.5i arm, and according to Tim "MiTT" the arm allows for more user freindly "change on the fly" settings !!

I agree on the vacuuming, big difference !!
 
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