Proper Care and Cleaning of Vinyl Records...

[Robin]

I am very curious how most of you care for and clean your vinyl record collections. Back in the day, when I used to have a vinyl record collection, I used to Preen them with a preening solution and a preen-er, prior to playing any record album. I also used to use a very fine 'model paint brush' to wipe off the lint and dust from the needle before playing any vinyl LP album or 45 record. I found this informative technique for caring for a vinyl record collection during a recent Google search:

http://members.tripod.com/~Vinylville/clean-2.html

Do you concur with this method of vinyl record care? or do you have a better technique of caring for your vinyl records? ;)

[Jeff Zaret]

I microwave mine so I kill all the imputies on the vinyl and all the bad music that may be on them too. :eek:

Jeff :rolleyes:

[Robin]

I microwave mine so I kill all the imputies on the vinyl and all the bad music that may be on them too. :eek:

Jeff :rolleyes:
Jeff,

Are you serious? Really? Wouldn't the microwave warp or bend the vinyl records? How long do you microwave them? Seriously, you really microwave them... :confused:

[Jeff Zaret]

Gotcha!!! :D

The microwave would work like we used to do with the oven to make large ash trays out of the albums. :rolleyes:


I have the old Discwasher system, the Mark Hunt brush and also Groove Glide that I use on my albums. Most of my albums are in great shape because I have taken the effort over the 40 + years. :)

Jeff :cool:

[Robin]

Gotcha!!! :D

The microwave would work like we used to do with the oven to make large ash trays out of the albums. :rolleyes:


I have the old Discwasher system, the Mark Hunt brush and also Groove Glide that I use on my albums. Most of my albums are in great shape because I have taken the effort over the 40 + years. :)

Jeff :cool:
Jeff,

I sounds like your record collection is awesome and you've really taken excellent care of your collection as well. What solution do you use in your discwasher?

[aliveatfive]

Jeff,

I sounds like your record collection is awesome and you've really taken excellent care of your collection as well. What solution do you use in your discwasher?

I think he uses Cascade in his dishwasher.

[twich54]

Robin, I read your linked article and it reminds me of what I did back in my College days. I don't agree with using regular water at all, filtration alone is not enough. The best process is that of reverse osmossis, which totally removes all minerals, impurities, etc.

I personally use Disk Doctor fluid, along with Allsop's Orbitrac - 2, light cleaning is done with a Care 2+2 brush. In extreme dry months I utilize my zero-stat gun.

Do you have any of your vinyl left from youth ? If so come and join the fun, there more reasonable and good sounding turntables out today then ever !!

[Kaliar]

My LPs have been acquired before 1987 and all have been bought new. All have been treated with either Sound Guard or Last record preservatives, after thorough cleaning with a carbon fiber brush (first a Decca and later a Statibrush). I have always been very careful in their handling, so they are pretty much in pristine condition, protected by inner sleeves !

However, for close to twenty years, I almost completely stopped listening to vinyl, fed up with the hassle of record cleaning combined with problems of static electricity during winters (I had no humidifier at the time!): it took me forever to prepare each LP side before actual listening ! :(

Now than I'm back into vinyl, and because my records have been kept in excellent condition, I simply use the Statibrush to keep the records clean. From time to time, I also apply Stylast on the stylus. Having a humidifier allows me to enjoy vinyl again ! :)

That's it ! Nothing fancy, but it works ! If I ever resume collecting again, I would probably invest in a washing machine like a VPI 16.5 !

Cheers !

[Jeff Zaret]

Robin,
I use the Discwasher solution with the brush. I bought 2 bottles for 2cents at Guitar Center, really!
I also use the Groove Glide solution.

I have used a mixture of water and isopropal but I am lazy and that is too much work because you have to have well filtered water and what comes out of my faucet is extremely alkaline.

Some of my records have not faired as well as others. Some of the ones I have treasured over the years from the 60's sound really scratchy but it is the memory not the fidelity when I decide to listen to those.

Kalier,
If I make it to April, I too will be 53. :eek:
Jeff :cool:

[Kaliar]

Jeff,

If I make it to April, I will then be 54 ! :eek:

Cheers !

[dyazdani]

I bought my dad a VPI 16.5 for Christmas a few years back, it is awesome! Does an outstanding job of cleaning records.

I used to have a Nitty Gritty 1.5 as well. It did OK, but no where near the control of the VPI.

I used VPI or the OEM Nitty Gritty fluid. I thought about trying some of the recipes floating around, but no place to get the chemicals around here.

[risabet]

All albums, both new and new to me, are cleaned with a Nitty Gritty machine using a DIY solution of 91% isopropanol(12 oz), Woolite OxyDeep (2 oz) in 1 gal of distilled water. Albums are cleaned with a CF brush then scrubbed with the cleanig solution. Really dirty albums are cleaned with straight OxyDeep, then cleaned with the solution and vacuumed dry. Every album is cleaned with an AQ CF brush before every play. Really simple and effective!

[Peter Hogan]

I bought my dad a VPI 16.5 for Christmas a few years back, it is awesome! Does an outstanding job of cleaning records.

I used to have a Nitty Gritty 1.5 as well. It did OK, but no where near the control of the VPI.

I used VPI or the OEM Nitty Gritty fluid. I thought about trying some of the recipes floating around, but no place to get the chemicals around here.

Hi,
I also use a VPI 16.5, and it works wonders, especially on old, dusty records you thought were trashed. Another thing I have found helps is to replace any plastic inner album liners with paper. The plastic ones generate lots of static electricity when removing/inserting the album, and then the album becomes a dust magnet.

Peter

[twich54]

Hi,
I also use a VPI 16.5, and it works wonders, especially on old, dusty records you thought were trashed. Another thing I have found helps is to replace any plastic inner album liners with paper. The plastic ones generate lots of static electricity when removing/inserting the album, and then the album becomes a dust magnet.

Peter
Pete, I use the Mobile Fidelity Master Sleeves which are of Archival quality and claim to be anti static and anti scratching. so far so good for me !

[jhorowitz128]

I am very curious how most of you care for and clean your vinyl record collections. Back in the day, when I used to have a vinyl record collection, I used to Preen them with a preening solution and a preen-er, prior to playing any record album. I also used to use a very fine 'model paint brush' to wipe off the lint and dust from the needle before playing any vinyl LP album or 45 record. I found this informative technique for caring for a vinyl record collection during a recent Google search:

http://members.tripod.com/~Vinylville/clean-2.html

Do you concur with this method of vinyl record care? or do you have a better technique of caring for your vinyl records? ;)

Exactly how anal do you want to be about cleaning your records?
Go to the Vinyl Forum on AUDIO ASYLUM, type in "cleaning" next to "text to find:"
http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/vinyl/bbs.html

You'll pobably get more information then you'll need to know :)
Have fun!

[tonyc]

I also use a VPI 16.5 with the VPI solution. I use the Hunt brush prior to each playing. Most of our acquisitions these days are from garage sales and I have been shocked at how successfully the VPI cleans nasty old records! I plan to experiment with cleaning solutions once I tire of listening to my new Ayre U2.

[Robin]

Do you have any of your vinyl left from youth ? If so come and join the fun, there more reasonable and good sounding turntables out today then ever !!
Dave,

I wish I hadn't donated my entire 200 plus album record collection to my work's yard sale, about four years ago... I'll admit it, really one of the stupidest things I ever did. I am still very mad at myself for having done it... :mad: It was one of the very first things sold the whole collection was purchased in it's entirety by a very excited and grateful record enthusiast, along with my old MGA TT... :cool: Oh well, it was a wonderful collection too... :( Unfortunately, if I ever re-start with vinyl again, I would have to start from the very beginning... :rolleyes: But folks like yourself, Kaliar, Jeff, Peter, risabet, Magoo, Warsweb and many others here I am seriously considering re-starting in the future. ML Club members here all seem to have beautiful TT's and phono amp.'s along with their excellent vinyl collections. I am envious, although very inspired to see vinyl flourishing with ML Club owners.

[kach22i]

I purchased (about 10 years ago) a record cleaning machine (vaccum) from Audio Advisor (Record Doctor) for $169 (now $199), a must for you record show goers. Wish I bought a better one for twice the money in retrospect.

I have an "Orbatrac", but I really don't see what the big deal is - works, nothing to rave about.

The big secret in great record cleaning is steam (must be used with either Orbatrac or record cleaning machine).

I have a portable travel sized steam cleaner (from the wife) which works wonders. Avoid the lables. My pint sized unit does not get very hot - could never burn you, and you have to really work it to get it to warp the record (flattens out on it's own once on the cleaning machine).

My current method on a newly purchased worn record or one of my oldest roughest samples is to clean in on the Record Doctor cleaning machine. Then steam clean it, put it on the Record Doctor machine and clean again (full fliuids and brush - typical). If this just does not do the trick, I'll pull out the Orbatrac.

Once upon a time; I steamed cleaned first, and went straight to the Orbatrac before going to the Record Cleaning Machine - wow you could really see all the crud then on the Orbatrac pads..

Once cleaned, I don't clean again for at least a year, but will use my Zerostat gun and carbon fiber brush to keep the record clean.

Also important to keep the needle clean, turn down the volume and use the "LAST" stylus cleaner and application brush.

I'm also a big fan of the Cardas degausing record and tube phone sections, somehow they work together to relax the whole playback system.

Some people claim to get good results with CD's using record treatment tools. They used the Zerostat gun on CD's, and play the Cardas record to tune-in or warm up the entire playback chain.

Remember, nothing cleans like STEAM .

If you want a theory to go along with this here is one: Every time you play a record the contact point of the stylus (just for an instant) heats up and melts the vinyl (cools back down in a micro second as well). The only way to get the dirt out is to losen it up with heat or warm water.

There is some evidence that mold is the real problem - even if you cannot see or smell it. Ever hear of "old moldy records"? There are now bio-cleaners designed to eat the mold but not the vinyl. The mold may grow over the dust particles making a big microscopic mess for your stylus to magnify.

[twich54]

Kach, Interesting approach, thanks for the info. I have been pretty anal with my Lp's over the years so it's preety easy keeping them clean. the point you made about the stylus is a good one , also the surface area that it contacts the record in might be small but the effective force per Sq in is rather large .

[kach22i]

The steamer I use looks similar to this one (different in some ways) - but without the brush. Makes me wonder if the brush would be a good idea if soft enough.

http://www.magellans.com/store/Appliances___Clothes_CareEC771?Args=


Dual-Voltage Fabric Steamer with Adaptor Plugs

Steam away wrinkles quickly and effectively without the need for an ironing board. This compact, lightweight, dual-voltage steamer uses regular tap water and powerful steaming action to remove wrinkles from clothes without scorching or shining. Safe for all fabrics (even delicates), it has a water level indicator, baffle system to prevent hot water spillage, brush attachment for extra garment care options, foldable handle and handy travel pouch. Includes the four most commonly needed adaptor plugs. (7 x 4 x 2"; 17-1/2 oz)
http://image.magellans.com/mitcus/Images/ec771_dt.jpg

[Robin]

I purchased (about 10 years ago) a record cleaning machine (vaccum) from Audio Advisor (Record Doctor) for $169 (now $199), a must for you record show goers. Wish I bought a better one for twice the money in retrospect.

I have an "Orbatrac", but I really don't see what the big deal is - works, nothing to rave about.

The big secret in great record cleaning is steam (must be used with either Orbatrac or record cleaning machine).

I have a portable travel sized steam cleaner (from the wife) which works wonders. Avoid the lables. My pint sized unit does not get very hot - could never burn you, and you have to really work it to get it to warp the record (flattens out on it's own once on the cleaning machine).

My current method on a newly purchased worn record or one of my oldest roughest samples is to clean in on the Record Doctor cleaning machine. Then steam clean it, put it on the Record Doctor machine and clean again (full fliuids and brush - typical). If this just does not do the trick, I'll pull out the Orbatrac.

Once upon a time; I steamed cleaned first, and went straight to the Orbatrac before going to the Record Cleaning Machine - wow you could really see all the crud then on the Orbatrac pads..

Once cleaned, I don't clean again for at least a year, but will use my Zerostat gun and carbon fiber brush to keep the record clean.

Also important to keep the needle clean, turn down the volume and use the "LAST" stylus cleaner and application brush.

I'm also a big fan of the Cardas degausing record and tube phone sections, somehow they work together to relax the whole playback system.

Some people claim to get good results with CD's using record treatment tools. They used the Zerostat gun on CD's, and play the Cardas record to tune-in or warm up the entire playback chain.

Remember, nothing cleans like STEAM .

If you want a theory to go along with this here is one: Every time you play a record the contact point of the stylus (just for an instant) heats up and melts the vinyl (cools back down in a micro second as well). The only way to get the dirt out is to losen it up with heat or warm water.

There is some evidence that mold is the real problem - even if you cannot see or smell it. Ever hear of "old moldy records"? There are now bio-cleaners designed to eat the mold but not the vinyl. The mold may grow over the dust particles making a big microscopic mess for your stylus to magnify.
kach22i,

Wow, you have been doing this cleaning and reconditioning for awhile, I can tell... :) Lots of excellent detailed information in your discription of your technique for cleaning /reconditioning your records. It seems with your technique, it just might be possible to remove most of those "pops" and "ticks" sounds from very old vinyl records? Have you found that to be true? Also, what fluids do you use for record cleaning in the "Orbatrac Record Cleaning Machine" ?

I really like your discribed style and combination of techniques / methods for cleaning and reconditioning your vinyl records. Thank you for sharing. ;)

[kach22i]

It seems with your technique, it just might be possible to remove most of those "pops" and "ticks" sounds from very old vinyl records? Have you found that to be true? Also, what fluids do you use for record cleaning in the "Orbatrac Record Cleaning Machine" ?
My methods are far from perfect and cannot fix that which is broken. However cleaning several times and using several methods will get results - just as with your laundry.

Alcohol - in your tummy not on the records will take the snap crackle pop out when all else fails. Please use in moderation. :)

My theory about tubes goes this way: Solid state reproduces the beginning and end of a note, whereas tubes capture the middle part of the note.

Using this theory of tubes and what my ears tell me. Tubes will take out the noise better and leave the primary notes. I'm not sure if this is a filter affect, in a true sense. I just call solid state a magnifying glass that etches out the flaws instead of rolling them over like a tube can.

If you go with an archaic technology (vinyl records) why not be true to the technology and go all the way with tubes. I kind of think they were made for each other.

[Robin]

kach22i,

I think you are quite correct, Tubes and Vinyl probably ment to go together... ;)

[Robin]

My methods are far from perfect and cannot fix that which is broken. However cleaning several times and using several methods will get results - just as with your laundry.

Alcohol - in your tummy not on the records will take the snap crackle pop out when all else fails. Please use in moderation. :)

My theory about tubes goes this way: Solid state reproduces the beginning and end of a note, whereas tubes capture the middle part of the note.

Using this theory of tubes and what my ears tell me. Tubes will take out the noise better and leave the primary notes. I'm not sure if this is a filter affect, in a true sense. I just call solid state a magnifying glass that etches out the flaws instead of rolling them over like a tube can.

If you go with an archaic technology (vinyl records) why not be true to the technology and go all the way with tubes. I kind of think they were made for each other.
kach22i or Anyone

I am curious is 'Older' vinyl records (1969 and older) easier to clean and care for, as they are thicker and more vinyl - less warp-age easier to handle? Or are they the same to clean / care for? :confused:

[twich54]

kach22i or Anyone

I am curious is 'Older' vinyl records (1969 and older) easier to clean and care for, as they are thicker and more vinyl - less warp-age easier to handle? Or are they the same to clean / care for? :confused:
Robin, actually today's audiophile pressings (180 and 200 gram) are thicker that the old stuff. Cleaning is directly related to how well you took care of and preserved them through the years. I have mono recordings from 1960 that still play well. Keep in mind a quality archival sleeve(anti-static) is important, one does not want to draw dust which in turn during summer months promotes mold, etc.

[risabet]

kach22i,

I think you are quite correct, Tubes and Vinyl probably ment to go together... ;)


Whether or not they were meant to go together they do, IMO, have a synergistic relationship that is undeniable. Long live vinyl and bottles.

[twich54]

Whether or not they were meant to go together they do, IMO, have a synergistic relationship that is undeniable. Long live vinyl and bottles.
I'll second that !!!

[Robin]

Whether or not they were meant to go together they do, IMO, have a synergistic relationship that is undeniable. Long live vinyl and bottles.
risabet,

Viva la Vinyl & Bottles, someday I hope to truly know and appreciate the perfect synergy relationship between these two age old audio leviathans... ;) Given the beauty of both, I only trust when I attempt adding these to my system, I find my vinyl smooth and crisp, while my bottles are mellow and too cool, man cool... :cool:

[kach22i]

kach22i or Anyone

I am curious is 'Older' vinyl records (1969 and older) easier to clean and care for, as they are thicker and more vinyl - less warp-age easier to handle? Or are they the same to clean / care for? :confused:

Some of my very old records do seem to be heavier and thicker.

For one thing, I think the vinyl ages and becomes brittle, so they flex less as they age. Could this be a problem for the needle/stylus? I really doubt it because even a stone hard record will be softer than your needle by like a 1,000 times - okay would you believe 100 times?

A word of caution: I've read that the old "78" rpm records are of a different vinyl blend (harder/stiffer) and will damage your needle if you install the modern cartiage on an old 78 turntable. They have special cartiages that are dual use or only for 78's.

Everything already said about 180 gram virgin vinyl seems accurate to me - great stuff and better than "stock weight".

Japanese vinyl records (Led Zep for instance in the 70's released some) are known to be of good quality (well recorded too).

When CD's came out the record industry made paper thin records that sounded like carp after a single playing. Now why would they want and do something like that? :rolleyes:

[jfm]

I use a Disc Doctor manual cleaning system...still I believe my records can sound more clean. Probably doing something wrong, as lots of folks have good words to say about DD.

[kach22i]

I use a Disc Doctor manual cleaning system...still I believe my records can sound more clean. Probably doing something wrong, as lots of folks have good words to say about DD.
That's the cheepest on on the market from Audio Advisor? This is the one I have, I think the ones costing three times as much are supposed to be much better. It may take two or three washings of the same record to get the tought stuff out. I have a several copies of Yellow Brick Road and Dark Side of the Moon which I'm still trying to get optium sound/cleaness out of. I kind of like the challenge.

Once I had a high-end store guy show me how to clean a record. He was very aggressive with the brushing part, so much so I was startled (seemed random and all over the place, not follwing the groves too much). He then explained that it's "just a brush", and that records are much tougher than most people think they are. Also that it typically takes something as hard as a needle to damage it, not the brissle of a brush. I would not want this guy to wash or wax my car, not sure how much paint I would have left. ;)

[jfm]

OK, thanks kach, I get it...am not using it vigorously enough it seems.

Robin - you're not alone. I gave away/threw away hundreds of LPs at the dawn of the digital age. Be kind to me too! Last year I returned to analog with a basic system, and started to buy versions of my old records. The biggest challenge is finding mint ones or, as my post above reveals, cleaning the ones I get.

For everyone - I am therefore tempted to go the "new LP" route - with reissues. I'll have to learn about which reissues are worth it.

Finally, tubes and analog - yup, agree, marriage made in heaven and so on.

[kach22i]

OK, thanks kach, I get it...am not using it vigorously enough it seems.
I don't know about that, I'm some what in between what that stereo salesman did and the instructions.

I use the standard nylon loop brush not a brissle brush for cleaning carpet or something rough (which is what that other brush reminded me of).

I might be in the market for a new wet application brush, are there any recomendations?

[Robin]

:p I found this interesting machine, which cleans all vinyl... ;)

The machine gently brushes the dust from the grooves with a mixture of alcohol and distilled water and then vacuums off the residue fluid and dirt leaving a dirt free surface and a quieter surface.

[Frank K.]

For over 25 years I play all my records wet - with a Lencoclean. This is a second tonearm with a tank, a tube and a head. The head has a little brush and a valve to regulate the amount of cleaner. This cleaner is a mix of 40% Isopropylalcohol and 60% Auqa Destilata. I have very good experience with this little device !

[Robin]

Frank,

Your Lencoclean second tonearm with a tank, a tube and a head with a little brush and a valve to regulate the amount of cleaner, is simply fascinating to me. :) It looks easy to use but does all that wetness on your LP's cause any whopping of your records? :confused:

[Robin]

I found another machine record cleaning machine which seem interesting. It runs about $500.00 (USD). ;)

[risabet]

I found another machine record cleaning machine which seem interesting. It runs about $500.00 (USD). ;)

VPI 16.5 and a very nice RCM. There are numerous good threads re: cleaning vinyl at the Audio Asylum/Vinyl Asylum so why reinvent the wheel here.

http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/vinyl/bbs.html

[Robin]

VPI 16.5 and a very nice RCM. There are numerous good threads re: cleaning vinyl at the Audio Asylum/Vinyl Asylum so why reinvent the wheel here.

http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/vinyl/bbs.html

Robert,

:D Excellent link, Thanks.:D
Please understand, I'm not trying to reinvent the wheel here, not in anyway, however, I have come to understand that ML owners have a unique perspective, not just in their choice of ML speakers but all things audio including how they choose to clean there vinyl LP's, which is unique as well. ;) So naturally, I enjoy discussing sharing this topic with all the member of this august ML Club, in order to receive ML Club members perspective and opinion... :cheers:

[Joey_V]

I found another machine record cleaning machine which seem interesting. It runs about $500.00 (USD). ;)

I think Stesom has this one... very cool gadget!

All this TT talk is making me.... itch.

I'm going to stop ocming to this thread.

Joey
;)

[twich54]

I think Stesom has this one... very cool gadget!

All this TT talk is making me.... itch.
Joey
;)


Itch, did you say itch ?? well go ahead and give it a good 'scratch' and your 'itch' will begin to 'Twitch' and the Vinyl angels will appear from above !!!

While preaching from the pulpit this morning let me say that the VPI 16.5 represents a good value, with a MSRP of $500, street pricing is usually around $450. I love mine !

[Frank K.]

Robin,
the Lencoclean is for all-day use and clean records. When I buy used records I go to my dealer, he has a machine :

http://www.die-plattenwaschmaschine.de/6.html

[tonyc]

Just another pitch for the VPI 16.5. I have used mine for several years with stunning efficacy. I use their cleaning fluid and a Hunt brush. I can't count the number of albums I bought for 50 cents or less at garage sales that looked like junk, but cleaned up to pristine. No turntable owner should be without a record cleaner!

[karma]

HI All,
This is a good thread. Thanks Robin-again. Also, It is good to see so many vinyl folks here but not too surprising given the fact that we all own ML speakers :cheers:

Record care for me is almost a spiritual exercise. Well, some might call it just being very anal. I am, no doubt. Before I had a VPI I used to hand wash. What a pain and is very dangerous for the records. As my record collection grew I first owned a VPI 16 machine and then traded up when the VPI 17 came out. I like the 17 much more. It doesn't clean records any better but subjects the record to far less danger from the hand held tools. Here is how I care for my 4000+ records.

I handle used and new records slightly differently because the used ones are unknown which I may keep or discard. I discard, perhaps, 30% of the used records I buy. There is only one way to know and that's to play them. For used, I usually wash them twice using my own home brew cleaning solution. I then play them on my "utility turntable" with a cheap cartridge. I see no sense in subjecting my expensive cartridge to the brutality of some of the records I bring home. If I don't like the music or they are noisy, off to the thrift store with them. The ones I keep go back to the VPI where I apply Last record preservative. The machine is perfect for this. I then apply a Last label. Finally, if the record has a paper sleeve I replace it with an archival plastic sleeve. I also replace some plastic sleeves because they can be very flimsy from the factory. Then they go on to the record shelves where they are stored upright and out of the sun.

When I play a record it must be Lasted. I will not play an un-Lasted record even if it is a demo record brought over by a friend. If I really want to hear it, I will ask permission to wash and Last it. If denied I don't play it, period.

My playing routine is constant and I do the same thing for every side. I first use a Discwasher slightly damp with D4 solution to remove any surface dust and residual static. Usually there is very little. Then I clean the stylus with a stylus brush. Finally, I apply Stylast to the stylus. And away we go!

When finished I usually do not use the Discwasher prior to sliding the record back into the sleeve. A good case could be made that I should. Also, using the Discwasher on the just played side before flipping it over can also be a good idea but I don't do it.

Here are some quick thoughts.

Paper sleeves are abrasive. If you carefully look at the surface of a record that has been stored in paper sleeves you will see very fine scratches caused by the paper.

Last record preservative and Stylast, used together, will both increase the life of your stylus and prevent most damage to the grooves. It also prevents static which is important where I live. It is very dry in Northern New Mexico. This stuff works and I use it with out fail.

After the initial wash, I don't wash a record unless it is showing signs of dirt. Since I am very careful about cleaning when I play a record, washing is not often needed.

Unwashed records, new or used, have residual mold release on the surface. Washing with a good solution will remove the release agent. While you can't see this stuff, you can see it dissolve on the machine. For me, this is important because it will prevent Last from properly adhering to the record.

That's it folks. Long live vinyl. :band:

Sparky

[twich54]

Sparky, Good day ! I must add one side note to your cleaning routine, which is almost perfect !! , except for the Discwasher brush routine. It is widely accepted that the discwasher brush is pretty poor for one major reason........ it is wooden rather than metal and thus does nothing to help remover static !!!! That's why they marketed the static gun !! A metal handled carbon fibre brush is a much better 'final swipe', especially in dry, static prone enviroments. Either the Hunt brush or the Care 2+2 are excellent choices.

[Joey_V]

Itch, did you say itch ?? well go ahead and give it a good 'scratch' and your 'itch' will begin to 'Twitch' and the Vinyl angels will appear from above !!!

While preaching from the pulpit this morning let me say that the VPI 16.5 represents a good value, with a MSRP of $500, street pricing is usually around $450. I love mine !

I'm staying away from you from now on, Dave!

[karma]

Sparky, Good day ! I must add one side note to your cleaning routine, which is almost perfect !! , except for the Discwasher brush routine. It is widely accepted that the discwasher brush is pretty poor for one major reason........ it is wooden rather than metal and thus does nothing to help remover static !!!! That's why they marketed the static gun !! A metal handled carbon fibre brush is a much better 'final swipe', especially in dry, static prone enviroments. Either the Hunt brush or the Care 2+2 are excellent choices.

HI twitch,
I own both carbon fibre anti-static brushes (two of them and both of the highest quality) and a Zerostat. The Discwasher brush is much better than the carbon brush at removing dust and the Zerostat is a pain to use. I believe the reason I get such good results is because of the Last. I really don't have a static problem in spite of the fact that I live in a very static generating environment.

Actually, I hate the carbon brush because it leaves dust behind. The Discwasher (old style) does an excellent job. Nothing is left behind.

I can only go with the results I get which are excellent.

Sparky

[twich54]

Sparky, yes Last does work, but you stated "static" issues in your area and for that reason the discwasher brush is NOT ideal, the wood handle does not help to relieve static build up. If using it as a wet application device you are much better off with say the Signet brush, metal handle conducts static electricity away through you to ground. Besides the Care 2+2 is a combo of carbon fibre and a chamois wipe, thus the 2+2 name. I'll bet you donuts to dollars if you try one you will see what I mean !!

[karma]

HI twitch,
I know you are well intentioned trying to guide me to a better way. But I will repeat. I don't have a static problem. I do understand what you are saying.

I subscribe to the idea that if it ain't broke, don't fix it. In my 50+ years of playing records I have tried almost every dust and static gadget that has come on the market including Soundguard. Ugg, what a mess that stuff is! What I have now works and works well. You are just going to have to take my word for it.

BTW, the Discwasher is damp and not wet. It leaves no visible moisture on the surface. There are reasons that the Discwasher helps with static which has to do with equalizing the charge regions across the surface. It's the moisture that does this, not the brush itself which is just the moisture carrier. The brush with its directional bristles picks up dust better than any product I have tried. Plus, it is very easy to use and that is very important. Certainly better and easier than any carbon brush. I don't like them. Sorry.

If I had a severe static problem, which I had before becoming a Last convert, I would use the carbon brush. In fact, did. But always in combination with the Discwasher because the carbon brush always left a residue which was removed by the Discwasher. But now there is no need for the carbon brush.

To repeat again, I don't have a static problem. Really. I only use the Discwasher to remove dust that may casually land on the record which is almost nil.

I sense you think I am being pig headed on this subject. I may be but why should I change something that so clearly works? Why should I buy something that will not improve my situation? Why should I buy something that will just end up in my useless hi fi gadgets box? That collection is getting quite big and I don’t intend to add to it.

Out of intellectual curiosity and respect for you I must ask why your carbon brushes are better than the other high quality carbon brushes I currently own. What are their dust removal mechanisms? I may be pig headed on the subject but I'm not immune to a good argument.

The most current one I own is one marketed by Clearaudio that came with my new Oracle Delphi turntable which is functionally identical to the other one I own which and can't find at the moment. I think it was marketed by Decca. That demonstrates how little I care. Yes, they both have the metal frame, the little discharge button and very fine bristles. They look pretty.

Do you use Last? Stylast? On every record? No exceptions? I hope so for the sake of your records and your stylus and to get you off my back ;) .

Going off subject slightly, have you ever used an Electronic Stylus Cleaner? They work great if you really want to nondestructively scrub your stylus. I do this every 4 months or so. Having access to a high power Shure Professional (200X) stylus microscope I can verify this gadget works great. Not useless at all. I don't know if they are still being made. I've had mine for about 15 years.

Also, do you know of a quality VTF digital scale that doesn't cost an arm and leg? I currently use the Shure scale which works pretty well but I would like more precision.

Sparky

[twich54]

HI All,
It also prevents static which is important where I live. It is very dry in Northern New Mexico. This stuff works and I use it with out fail.
Sparky


Sparky, the above is what I took as your concern for static. Regardless, if you have the opportunity to pick-up a Signet cleaning brush, I'll bet you'll never go back to the Discwasher. If you can find one, try it and if not happy I'll buy you a drink at the Saturday ****tail party during the "Get-Together" in Lawrence this June !

As for Last products, yes good stuff, been using them for more years than I can remember, and along with the last label that goes on the LP I also put a small label / with date on the record sleave to show when it was last vacummed (this little trick courtesy of Mr. Bingaman, aka MiTT)

I use Stylast cleaner / treatment as well, one needs to be carefull though for there seems to be concern that too much is NOT good, some reports say it tends to 'wick' itself up the cantilever if over applied. FWIW, I have heard good things about the Zerodust stylus clening device s well.

As far as the Decca (Care 2+2), I use it as the last step before the tonearm is lowered, I like it better than the Hunt EDA brush.

My VTF gauge that I use is the AcousTech Gauge (Digital).

Again Sparky, not trying to stir up a hornets nest, if you are happy that's all that matters, just adding a little food for thought !!

[karma]

HI twitch,
Come on now. You are not doing your best. You know, it's not just for us that we are continuing this discussion. It's for all our Club members who do not have long experience with vinyl. We have spent an audio lifetime collecting information and practicing our vinyl skills. Many though have never owned a turntable or a record. They can draw upon our experience and we should offer it in as much detail as necessary.

I googled Signet brushes and came up empty. Is it still being made? I'll try ebay next but based upon your input I'm not too inclined to work hard on a non-problem.

I asked you to describe the Signet brushes dust removal method and if it is different than the carbon brushes I already own and have rejected. You did not explain why I should expect something different from what my past experience has been with carbon brushes. Please try to convince me with details since the web has not proven fruitful. "It's better" and "it's great" is not enough. How does it work especially when lifting dust off the record? It is my bet that it is identical to what I already have. That's is the information I need to know.

Also, from what I have read on various forums, the original Discwasher, the one I have, is different than the one that is currently being sold. If this is true, I don't know when the design transition occured. As I understand the current one is far inferior, not having the directional bristles of the original. It was the directional bristles that made the Discwasher unique and so effective. Which one are you referring to? New or old?

Thanks for the info on the VTF scales. I have read some horror stories about some of the inexpensive units on the market. Inexpensive, that is, when you compare to the ones available in the '80's that sold for multi-hundreds of dollars. I think Technic's was the big name at that time. But it had a reputation of being excellent and are now collector items. I'm not sure about the current one's.

Have you noticed a significant stylus life increase since using Last and Stylast? I ran a long term user experiment to try to determine the effectiveness of Last and Stylast. I logged the hours on my Monster Sigmal Genesis 2000 cartridge from day one. The stylus did not play a single non-Lasted record and not a single play without Stylast. Not one. I was very strict. The stylus never wore out. The suspension system failed first. I logged over 1700 hours on this radical stylus shape. Not bad, huh? One would expect about 1000 hours normally which is what I got on my previous Monster Alpha Genesis 1000 cartridge which had a less extreme stylus shape. I'm a believer.

BTW, Stylast is more than a cleaner. It forms a chemical interface with the Last on the record groove to help disipate heat from the stylus. It also cleans but I think alcohol does a better job of that.

Last, if your are happy with your techniques why is static attracted dust such a problem for you? I don't understand. Last should solve your problems.

I think we are loosing the forums interest. Come on folks, ask you questions or offer your experience.

Sparky

[twich54]

Good Morning Sparky, Not trying to misslead you or any other members but the Signet Brush I'm reffering to works in the same way your Discwasher brush does. It is NOT a carbon fibre brush, for carbon fibre is used as a final 'sweep' before playing your Lp. Note pics below of the Signet brush I speak of.

Also, FWIW the Stylast treatment products I have are two parts, one is the cleaner and the other is just labeled "Stylast".

[MiTT]

As for Last products, yes good stuff, been using them for more years than I can remember, and along with the last label that goes on the LP I also put a small label / with date on the record sleave to show when it was last vacummed (this little trick courtesy of Mr. Bingaman, aka MiTT)

I use Stylast cleaner / treatment as well, one needs to be carefull though for there seems to be concern that too much is NOT good, some reports say it tends to 'wick' itself up the cantilever if over applied. FWIW, I have heard good things about the Zerodust stylus clening device s well.

Thanks for the shout out Dave, yep, just like you I attach a little label to the back side of the plastic sleeve (ALL of my lp's are in protective outer sleeves), that indicates when it was last cleaned.

I do all of my cleaning on my trusty VPI 16.5, and it works very well for me, although I must say I am intrigued by the new machines that Acoustic Sounds is importing from Germany - the Hannl line, although they brand some of them themselves as Acoustech.

I always hand wash first with Disc Doctor brushes and cleaning fluids, then a rinse in distilled water. If it is a used record I may do a second wash. Then it's on to the VPI for another wash cycle, followed by the vaccuming. I've never used the Last products, but Dave and Sparky have me thinking I need to investigate them. I always thought I was kind of anal about how I treat my collection, but now I feel like a slacker.

When it's time to take something for a spin I usually only need to use my Hunt EDA Mark 6 brush to remove anything that may land on the surface of the disc. If it's serious at all I pull out my trusty 20 year old Diskwasher and apply a light bead of the Disk Doctor fluid to the leading directional edge and rotate to the dry side after a few rotations. I still love my Discwasher too Sparky!

Static is a hit or miss thing here in Colorado, so I sometimes use my Zerostat gun and sometimes don't. If it crackles coming out of the sleve or when I flip the LP, then it's a sure bet, and it is very effective.

In addition to putting all of my LP's in protective outer sleeves, I too am replacing all of my paper sleeves with plastic lined rice paper inner sleeves. I jsut buy both in mass and replace the inner sleeves as I play something that has an old paper one.

I'll let you know about the Zerodust stylus cleaner next weekend - I just ordered one from Music Direct last Thursday (along with some new vinyl), so I'll have an opportunity to use it and report back by then.

Vinyl rules! Enjoy the music....;)

[karma]

HI twitch,
OK, I see. Thanks for the pics. As they say, "A pic is worth...."

The brush does look very good. Actually very impressive. If I can find one, I'll give it a go. But I don't know where to find one. All of my normal sources don't seem to carry it. I will continue the search. Maybe you can point me to a source.

BTW, my procedure is far from perfect but thanks for the compliment. I'm just too lazy to take it all the way. For example, a record should be swept before it is flipped. Then, the most recently played side should be swept before slipping the record into the sleeve. This prevents stray dust from entering the sleeve where it could be embossed into the vinyl by the pressure of being stored. Then, the inside of the sleeve should be cleaned to remove any dust inside. Unfortunately, this is very hard to do in any thorough way. I wish someone made tool for this.

Finally, the turntable platter itself should be cleaned. Most modern turntables use an acrylic surface which is pretty unforgiving when the record is placed on it under the pressure of a clamp. Any dust trapped between the platter and the record potentially can harm the vinyl.

I would like to meet the person who does all the necessary steps. How far we take the ritual is usually limited to the most important steps and that is usually good enough. But, I have no doubt that the additional steps will result in cleaner records. However, for really valuable records, the full blown process is probably worthwhile.

MiTT, you are doing fine. I would suggest giving Last and Stylast a try. I think you will like it.

For you beginners, I know the cleaning and care of records must seem to be an incredible hassle. Don't be discouraged. For the most part the process becomes second nature after a while and you really don't notice the extra effort. Especially when you hear the results of clean records over the years. It's well worth the trouble. You do need to have the proper tools.

Sparky

[Robin]

Dave & Sparky & Tim,

Well, you guys have convinced me, made me a believer that The Proper Care and Cleaning of Vinyl Records is a subject which I really knew little about till now.... :o You know, and I mean this as a compliment, their seems to be a anal quality, a persistence, a consistency to your record cleaning routine. Your vinyl passion..., is more of a passionate ritual more than just a routine. It's like you all know the goal but have significantly different varied approaches toward the achieving the same goal. The goal being ~ To have as much as humanly possible a wonderful / beautiful vinyl listening experience by providing a pristine dust-free, friction-free, unwanted residue-free, smooth-vinyl surface environment for your stylus to glide over in order to produce the highest quality sound, while assuring maximum or stylus and vinyl long life. Does that goal sound correct or about right?

It seems like you all have found what really works, over the years of your experimenting and trying new and different products and techniques. What is interests me is that even though you have found what works in the properly caring and cleaning you vinyl, you are always open to the possibility that a new or different approach or technique or cleaning product possibly could work better... I guess what I am saying is that even though you have a set routine, you are willing to change..., if it means coming closer or improving achieving the ultimate goal.

Another thing that is very evident to me is that you guys have forgotten more that I will ever know about The Proper Care and Cleaning of Vinyl. :o This discourse / Thread has been like golden information for me. I think, I now know enough now to proceed more confidently and effectively i. e., What to purchase and more importantly why...

When I owned LP's back in the 70's, 80's and 90's, :) I was just a punk kid, all I knew was to Purine the records with prining solution (but I never knew what it was) and Brush the stylus with a dry paint brush just to get the dust off the needle. You gentlemen have shown me, in a good way, that I never knew what I was doing and that's OK because I didn't know. I want you both to know what a valuable subject this is me as a ML owner who aspires to someday once again own vinyl someday. I plan to properly care for and clean my vinyl ~ in order to attain the goal of beautiful musical listening in the vinyl realm someday soon... :cheers:

Dave and Sparky and Tim ~ Please if I may ask you, with the vinyl records you have decided to keep, what is the mixture of solutions and what brand or type of solutions do you use for the initial washing your vinyl records?

[Dreamer]

For really dirty records, (like used ones I've bought at thrift stores and the like) I do a preliminary cleaning with a LAST brush, using a solution of 1 cup of water and 5 or 6 drops of Dawn dish soap. Works like a charm, and leaves no residue.

For regular cleaning, I use a Discwasher brush and "Groove Glide" a spray-on cleaning solution. It really works well.

For final treatment, I use LAST. I love that stuff, and it makes my records very smooth and clean-sounding, and keeps the static down.

And I have a really nice IXOS carbon fibre brush I swipe them with before I drop the tonearm down.

I'm looking for a good deal on a used VPI record cleaning machine. We used one of those in the radio station when I was in college, and those machines are just the BEST...

--Richard

[karma]

HI Robin,
As the preacher said, "Just one saved soul. Just one makes it all worth while".

There should be a book with the title of "The Zen And Art Of Record Care". It is a very Zen-ish process. Very few things in the world can be done with the idea of perfection in mind. Record care is one. It is very procedural. The results are obvious which encourages one to proceed.

I will get back with you on my cleaning solution formula. I have it written down at home. It's not complicated compared to some but I want to get it right before making it public.

Thanks for your reply.

Sparky

[romax]

I use the nitty gritty 1.0 fully manual and am very happy with it.
It can be had for about $280 brand new.
I like the fact that, besides the vacuum motor, nothing else can go wrong with it and I like being able to scrub and apply the fluid myself.
As for the fluid, I use the stock nitty gritty fluid.
As many have said already, it is very important to use new high grade sleeves after the cleaning. Once the record is spinning, I use the audioquest CF brush and Last stylus cleaner.

[twich54]

Dave & Sparky & Tim,
~ Please if I may ask you, with the vinyl records you have decided to keep, what is the mixture of solutions and what brand or type of solutions do you use for the initial washing your vinyl records?



Robin, Good day, I have settled in on the commercial stuff, namely Disc Doctor's Miracle Record cleaner for the intial cleaning of new Lp's and also for clean-up of any used one's I purchase, followed by a distilled water rinse. My fluid of choice used in conjunction with my VPI 16.5 is Disc Doctors 'Quick Wash' or Record Research Labs 'Super Vinyl Wash' , both of which give me good results. When rinsing never use anything but distilled water, preferably that distilled by reverse osmosis (purest water on the planet, so they say !!)

[babydoc]

I have records in my collection that I have owned for more than 40 years. In addition, I have acquired many records of similar vintage (Shaded Dogs, Merc FR and RFR1's, London bluebacks, etc).
I have used a faithful VPI 17F for about a decade with various cleaning solutions. However, I always lusted after a Keith Monks Record cleaning system because unlike the solid brush based systems, it had the ability to peform groove-by-groove cleaning in both directions. It is still available but extraordinarily expensive.
Last year I discovered the Loricraft PRC-3 cleaning system which bears considerable resemblance to the Keith Monks. You can check this system out at http://www.smartdev.com/loricraft.html. It can be used with a variety of cleaning fluids which are also available from this site. I cleaned a record with the VPI first and played it and then cleaned it once more with the Loricraft. The reduction in surface noise was not subtle.
This, however, is just the beginning. Many records are warped which unfortunately gets in the way of the listening experience. Music Direct sells the solution to the "warp" problem-- the AIR TIGHT - DT-01 DISC FLATTER. It will set you back about $2K so you have to decide how much of a warp problem you have. It definitely works!
Record storage plays an important role. Records need room to "breathe" to avoid storage warping. In addition, they should be placed in static-free sleeves such as those from Mobile Fidelity. I also recommend loose-fitting plastic sleeves for the record jackets to protect the sleeve and further retard the entry of dust into the record jackets.
Finally we get to the playback. I agree with the stylus cleaning fluids (Stylast for example) or even better Zerodust. But the stylus needs proper counterweighting, offset, and tracking angle adustments. The turntable also needs to be properly isolated to avoid feedback muddying up the sound.
You can watch the ritual of setting up your playback system on Michael Fremer's fine DVD.

[twich54]

Curious.... several of you have stated that you use the Stylast cleaner, do you use it alone or in conjunction with the 'Stylast' preservative. They are actually two different products as well as different types of brushes for application.

[karma]

HI All,
To follow up on twitch's question, I'll add one of my own. Last makes Stylast, and a Stylus Cleaner. Stylast is a stylus treament. This is the product I use. Their cleaner is different yet it seems the two products are being referred to without distinction.

Last record preservative and Stylast stylus treament are designed to work as a team and that's how I use them. What are you folks talking about? To be clear, in this thread I have not referred to the cleaner which I do not use; only the Stylast stylus treatment product.

We need to get this straight.

Sparky

[twich54]

Sparky, since you don't use Stylast Stylus cleaner, which product / method do you use ??

[Robin]

I have records in my collection that I have owned for more than 40 years. In addition, I have acquired many records of similar vintage (Shaded Dogs, Merc FR and RFR1's, London bluebacks, etc).
I have used a faithful VPI 17F for about a decade with various cleaning solutions. However, I always lusted after a Keith Monks Record cleaning system because unlike the solid brush based systems, it had the ability to peform groove-by-groove cleaning in both directions. It is still available but extraordinarily expensive.
Last year I discovered the Loricraft PRC-3 cleaning system which bears considerable resemblance to the Keith Monks. You can check this system out at http://www.smartdev.com/loricraft.html. It can be used with a variety of cleaning fluids which are also available from this site. I cleaned a record with the VPI first and played it and then cleaned it once more with the Loricraft. The reduction in surface noise was not subtle.
This, however, is just the beginning. Many records are warped which unfortunately gets in the way of the listening experience. Music Direct sells the solution to the "warp" problem-- the AIR TIGHT - DT-01 DISC FLATTER. It will set you back about $2K so you have to decide how much of a warp problem you have. It definitely works!
Record storage plays an important role. Records need room to "breathe" to avoid storage warping. In addition, they should be placed in static-free sleeves such as those from Mobile Fidelity. I also recommend loose-fitting plastic sleeves for the record jackets to protect the sleeve and further retard the entry of dust into the record jackets.
Finally we get to the playback. I agree with the stylus cleaning fluids (Stylast for example) or even better Zerodust. But the stylus needs proper counterweighting, offset, and tracking angle adustments. The turntable also needs to be properly isolated to avoid feedback muddying up the sound.
You can watch the ritual of setting up your playback system on Michael Fremer's fine DVD.
babydoc,

Fascinating information... :cheers: They sure look impressive for cleaning records.

[karma]

Sparky, since you don't use Stylast Stylus cleaner, which product / method do you use ??

HI twitch (not itch),
I use the "stylus treatment" which is called Stylast System Formula 5. The cleaner is a different product.

I apply Stylast to the stylus just prior to setting the sylus down on the record. I wish their brush was bigger but I guess I can't have everything.

The claim on the package (I have an unopened package) is it extends styus life up to 10 times. I can't vouch for that number but I do think it extends stylus life quite a bit.

Sparky

[twich54]

Sparky, FYI, I spoke with the folks at the "Last Factory' (925-449-9449)this afternoon to confirm the correct procedure for proper stylus 'health' with respect to their products and they told me that the 'Stylast' treatment should be used in conjunction with their stylus 'cleaner'.

I'm sure they want all to use their cleaner but it was reiterated that the Sylast treatment is NOT a cleaner and that it is important to CLEAN the stylast first, then apply the treatment.

Hope this clears up any confussion for those who may have been following this thread.

[karma]

HI twitch,
Good info. I'll give their cleaner a try.

Robin, I said I would get you the formula for my record cleaning solution. As I said, it is not fancy or complicated. Here it is:

For 1 quart solution:
In a quart bottle mix

20% 99% pure isopropyl alcohol; available at any large drug store.
10 drops Photoflow for wetting; find at any camera store
4 drops Windex
Fill the bottle with ordinary distilled water.
Shake and you are on your way

Bake for 2 hours at 450 degrees, cool then frost.....just kidding.

I'll never claim this is the best possible mixture. I refuse to get into a discussion concerning the various different solutions people conjure up. That's the road to madness. This works for me. My prime objective is to remove the mold release agent on the record. Dirt is removed in the process.

Sparky

[Robin]

HI twitch,
Good info. I'll give their cleaner a try.

Robin, I said I would get you the formula for my record cleaning solution. As I said, it is not fancy or complicated. Here it is:

For 1 quart solution:
In a quart bottle mix

20% 99% pure isopropyl alcohol; available at any large drug store.
10 drops Photoflow for wetting; find at any camera store
4 drops Windex
Fill the bottle with ordinary distilled water.
Shake and you are on your way

Bake for 2 hours at 450 degrees, cool then frost.....just kidding.

I'll never claim this is the best possible mixture. I refuse to get into a discussion concerning the various different solutions people conjure up. That's the road to madness. This works for me. My prime objective is to remove the mold release agent on the record. Dirt is removed in the process.

Sparky
Sparky,

The formulas sounds like it will do the trick for the proper care and cleaning of records. :cheers:
:D Thank you very much, I really appreciate your help and assistance. :D

[Robin]

I just found this Active Audio - SB1 Record Washer Machine... :D I'll bet this could clean anything right down to the bear bone or vinyl... ;)