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KellenerSpt

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Looking to change directions with my current system and I'm specifically looking for input on replacing my front channels. Currently I'm running 803N and while I like the B&W sound, I've heard and like the Panel sound also. I'm looking at the Prodigy, Odyssey or the reQuest. System will be located in an exceeding large family room, serving dual purpose for music and HT/TV. High SPL levels will not be required and music will consist of all genres, including Rolling Stones, Beatles etc. I looked at upgrading to the 802s, but the WAF on those is pretty low, partly due to the midrange "head." So my choice needs to be aesthetically pleasing, but with the ability to create a large, transparent sound-stage with detailed dynamics. I understand the limitations of panals, ie; little to no bass response, high amplification requirements, small sweet spot and have the proper solutions for those. Amplification will be either Classe CA-201 or Electrocompaniet AW250R, both of which effortlessly powered B&W 801s and 803s and bass with be taken care of with REL subs. Additionally, due to the large size of the room, I'm specifically only looking at the larger panels, the newer panels, while nice, would look silly in my room.

I'm hoping someone can provide some insight, with real world experiences, to the nature of the sound-stage and detail these speakers can create vs say the B&W sound.

Thanks.
 
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Here is a pic of my old bed room system. No.37 transport No.331 amp B&W 802 Matrix III


masterbedroom.jpg


Here is my present home theater. Martin Logan Prodigy

prodigy06.jpg


The home theater does serve dual duty, but with more play time in HT mode. I do have a dedicated 2-channel in the living room.

Now for the Prodigy's. They are majestic in both sound and esthetics. The are fast, articulate and can supply good bass from the dual 10's in each cabinet for music and home theater. I do run a dual 12" tapped horn sub for serious impact for movies.

What specifically are you looking for or want to know?
 
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Basically looking for a sonic comparison of the B&W sound vs the ML sound. Additionally, I'm hoping that the Prodigys, et al can provide a "full" sound, provided with the above mentioned amplification.

I'm hoping to find something similar in dynamics and musically fulfilling as I've found with the B&Ws.

Thanks
 
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First off let me say, use the Electrocompaniet. It will get more out of the Prodigys. It can drive down to 1 ohm while the Classe is down to 2. I believe in headroom and the Electrocompaniet will give you a buffer of power for classic crescendos or movie explosions. Just my 2 cents.

As for sound, I believe you will notice the Prodigys to be more open and airy. The detail will equal if not surpass the B&W. The bass will be more abundant with the Prodigys. They will give you a larger soundstage and depth of field. They are a large speaker and work well in large rooms. Over all I prefer the Prodigy's.

How far back to you expect to sit from the speakers? How far out from the back wall will the speakers be placed?
 
I also have to recommend the Prodigy for your application. They are an incredible speaker and work great in large rooms. I also agree that the electrocompaniet will outperform the Classe. I haven't heard good things about the synergy between Classe amps and Martin Logan speakers.
 
Hi Rich,

FWIW, I had the Classe CA150 amp before switching to the Pass Labs. Used it on the SL3's and the Summits.

The PL amp is definitely more detailed and controlled on the mid bass / bottom end but a tad drier in the midrange. The CA 150, by comparison, was more euphonic in the mid range area (read darker) in a pleasant, musical way.

I also know Classe has "voiced" their electronics differently over time, which most manufacturers do in the interest of obtaining, in their opinion, a more "neutral" sound.

So my sense, regarding your comment, is it depends. The classic system synergy conundrum.

Gordon
 
Depending on imaging, I would be open to sitting 10 to 15 feet away. My current set up is about 10 feet. The speakers could be placed anywhere from 5 to 8 feet from the front wall and will be at a minimum of 10 feet from the sides. Would I be gaining that much by getting the Prodigy over the Odysseys?

First off let me say, use the Electrocompaniet. It will get more out of the Prodigys. It can drive down to 1 ohm while the Classe is down to 2. I believe in headroom and the Electrocompaniet will give you a buffer of power for classic crescendos or movie explosions. Just my 2 cents.

As for sound, I believe you will notice the Prodigys to be more open and airy. The detail will equal if not surpass the B&W. The bass will be more abundant with the Prodigys. They will give you a larger soundstage and depth of field. They are a large speaker and work well in large rooms. Over all I prefer the Prodigy's.

How far back to you expect to sit from the speakers? How far out from the back wall will the speakers be placed?
 
Yes you would be gaining going for the Prodigy's instead of Odyssey's. A friend of mine went from Odyssey's to Prodigy's and was very impressed with the improvements. The bigger stator panel has more to offer as well as the bass going lower also.

I run Odyssey's myself, but if I had a larger soundroom Prodigy's would be the ticket.

Cheers, Greg
 
Personally, I'd grab a used pair of summits...

So would I. I have been doing a lot of auditioning of speakers (at home with my system) and my assessment is:

1. Summit X
2. Spire
3. Summit
4. Prodigy
5. Odyssey

This was a lot of work, but I don't purchase speakers often and wanted to get it right The newer speakers just sound better especially the Spires and Summit X. Much better integration than anyother ML hybrid and those new panels sing. The Prodigy and Odyssey are speakers that were excellent in their time, but the newer speakers are just better (IMHO).

I have also listened to the CLX/Descent i (one) in a store and the CLS in a friend's home.

I would gladly buy the CLX/Descent combination but I don't have the funds. The CLS is a special speaker with its own idiosyncracies and requires much love and care which I am not inclined to expend at this stage in my life.
 
For a large room, I think the Prodigy beats the Summit. The Summit may be a little better at woofer/panel integration (more seamless and easier to dial in), but the large panel of the Prodigy makes for an overall better sound presentation in a larger room. The Prodigy has a depth of tone and size of soundstage in a large room that the Summit just can't match, in my opinion. And the ability to biamp them with the amps of your choice is an important and often overlooked point. The Summit has its own internal amps for the woofers, but their sound can be colored by the signal from your main amps. The Summit's bass will sound very poor with certain amps. This limits your choices on which amps you can use to drive the panels.

I am speaking as someone who owns Summits and loves them. But my room is only 14' by 19' and heavily treated and I do understand their limitations, especially in larger rooms. My Ascents in my large basement sound better than my Summits in some respects, although they are not as neutral in the midbass. But they are more versatile as to which amps I can drive them with, and they just have a "bigger" sound to them. And the Prodigies are a huge step up from the Ascents.

I have never really bought into ML's marketing hype that the smaller panels with more holes sound as good as the older gen's larger panel sizes. They may be as or more efficient from a technical perspective, but the proof is in the hearing. And in a large room, I think the Prodigy beats out just about every other ML speaker ever produced.

And the used prices bear this out. The Prodigies were first produced in 2000 and were replaced by the Summits in 2005, and both sold originally for $10,995, but the Summits are already at the same price point as the Prodigies on the used market. There always seem to be more Summits on the 'gon at any given time than Prodigies. I think that says something about the loyalty of Prodigy owners to that speaker.
 
I had summits in a 20X29 foot room. They sounded great with a McIntosh 402 amp.
 
I would tend to agree with Rich's explanation. Very well put.
 
KellenerSpt,

As you can see there is some variation of opinions here. What Rich said about the Prodigy not having internal amplifers for the woofer is a factor when deciding which model to buy. I was very prejudiced about this for quite a while. But ultimately, I decided upon the Summit X (which should be in place late September).
 
I had summits in a 20X29 foot room. They sounded great with a McIntosh 402 amp.

Ron, I agree that the Summits can sound great, especially with the right amp. But until you have compared them directly to the Prodigies in a room that size, I don't think you can fully understand my point. The Prodigy simply has a bigger, fuller sound in a large room than the Summits. And they are more compatible with a larger assortment of amps than the Summits. I have heard a few great Summit setups, including my own and Gordon Gray's. But they still don't beat out the best Prodigy setups I have heard. If I had a larger room (say 20' x 24' or larger), I would trade my Summits in for Prodigies in a heartbeat.
 
Ron, I agree that the Summits can sound great, especially with the right amp. But until you have compared them directly to the Prodigies in a room that size, I don't think you can fully understand my point. The Prodigy simply has a bigger, fuller sound in a large room than the Summits. And they are more compatible with a larger assortment of amps than the Summits. I have heard a few great Summit setups, including my own and Gordon Gray's. But they still don't beat out the best Prodigy setups I have heard. If I had a larger room (say 20' x 24' or larger), I would trade my Summits in for Prodigies in a heartbeat.

I guess it worked for me since I was basically using half of the large room. I now am using the CLX
 
Thanks for all the replies!

What Rich said about the Prodigy not having internal amplifers for the woofer is a factor when deciding which model to buy.

Not too concerned about this, I have other sets of amps that I could run top and bottom, to give a uniform sound.

For a large room, I think the Prodigy beats the Summit. The Summit may be a little better at woofer/panel integration (more seamless and easier to dial in), but the large panel of the Prodigy makes for an overall better sound presentation in a larger room. The Prodigy has a depth of tone and size of soundstage in a large room that the Summit just can't match, in my opinion. And the ability to biamp them with the amps of your choice is an important and often overlooked point. The Summit has its own internal amps for the woofers, but their sound can be colored by the signal from your main amps. The Summit's bass will sound very poor with certain amps. This limits your choices on which amps you can use to drive the panels.

I am speaking as someone who owns Summits and loves them. But my room is only 14' by 19' and heavily treated and I do understand their limitations, especially in larger rooms. My Ascents in my large basement sound better than my Summits in some respects, although they are not as neutral in the midbass. But they are more versatile as to which amps I can drive them with, and they just have a "bigger" sound to them. And the Prodigies are a huge step up from the Ascents.
.

I had summits in a 20X29 foot room. They sounded great with a McIntosh 402 amp.

Room is much larger then both listed here (>1000 sqft), I'm concerend about the ability of Summits or any newer panels to accurately fill a very large space with ample sound. Plus, I find the larger panels to be more aesthetically pleasing, which at this point is an important factor. Although if the newer panels can do what I ask of them, then obviously that is more of a factor.

Has anyone used Summits or the smaller panels in a very large room? I just have a hard time believing that smaller panels can provide a "larger" sound considering the whole idea of stat panels is to move air. But I'm totally a novice at the panels, so someone correct me if I'm thinking in the wrong direction here.

Also, I tend to follow Rich's logic, that if the Summits where superior to the Prodigys in all aspects, we would see a much more discounted price in relation to the Summits.

Again, I'm hoping to find something similar to B&W sound, but with the ability to fill my room.
 
I have my Summits in a room that is 20x35' and completely open to another adjacent room that is 20x30', so lots of volume. They sound great, but I've only rolled Aerius and Ascent through the room to compare with.
 
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